Prakash Narayan Bajpai: Swami ji pranam, to continue from my last contact on 31-08-10.
Thank you very much for the learned replies to my queries. My delusion has aggravated by the simple thought …..what is and where is the proof that VEDAS were told by or revealed by GOD? Everything becomes very plain if we fully believe in Vedas and then all queries, doubts and delusions end. I cannot give any proof to the contrary whether Vedas are true or Imagined? Like there is no proof of GOD except it can be experienced by human beings, if they want to. But personalities like Dr.Sarvapally Radhakrishnan when write about Indian history from 1500 b.c. to 1300 a.d.,they must have some basis to do , and write clearly about ancient Indian philosophies. Further i have spent months in reading history of the earth and its all continents and its nations and its various religions under strict scientefic view. this study has generated many questions But about
India it tells us about Harrapan culture but does not tell us from where came those Harrappan people? It tells us that about 9,000 years ago about a stone painting in Madhya Pradesh known as BhimBaithka (I have seen it) near Bhopal , but were those people so backward that they lived in hill caves! If I keep writing unexplained things it may become a book of a doubtful man. therefore in my opinion quoting verses from the Scriptures does not authenticate the accepted dogmas of the believers. we should go further ahead, as I wrote in my last dilemmas, that any creation is always first in mind, may be a building or a philosophy then all 24 Tanmatras are brought into action by
Prakriti. True Indian philosophy (SANATAN) is so great that no foreign powers were able to demolish it since over 3,000 years. It stood on its own. Even Jainism & Buddhism could not overcome it. The time has come to rationalise it. Remove false beliefs & faiths. Inform all (the entire world) that there is only one and only one true path from deliverance from sufferings . That is only in true Gyan of Vedanta. I am 71 and was actively working till sometime back when I started having health problems. I was destined to have this conversation with you Swamiji. Please do send all your books in Hindi & English, including all Vedas’ samhitas,brahmins, aranyaks and upnishads, with commentaries.
Swami Ram Swarup: My blessings to you. You are welcome, please. The proof of Rishis are several in their shastras, wherein it is stated that Vedas emanates direct from God in the beginning of the creation. However, following proofs are mentioned, please.
(i) Rigveda mantra 10/181/1, 2, 3
(ii) Yajurveda mantra 31/7
(iii) Manusmriti shloka 1/23
(iv) Bhagwad Geeta Shloka 3/15
(v) Yog Shastra Sutra 1/7
(vi) Sankhya Shastra Sutra 5/48 etc., etc.
Sankhya Shastra Sutra 1/57 reveals that existence of God cannot be proved by giving any materialistic proof. In this regard, I paste my relevant articles-
VEDAS- A PROOF IN TOKEN TO RECOGNIZE TRUTH
Rigveda mantra 1/164/16 says “Akshanvaan Pashyat Na Vi Chetat Andhaha” that is, he who knows eternal knowledge of Vedas, has been performing Yagya (Yajna) and practised Yoga Philosophy, he realises God and he who is lack of the same knowledge cannot. Yajurveda mantra 6/5 says” Suryaha Vishnoho Praramam Padam Sada Pashyanti” That is Suryaha( Philosopher of Vedas and does Yoga) ever sees(realises) the Almighty and Omnipresent God. Yajurveda mantra 40/13 says “Dheeranam Tat Shushrum”. Dheeranam means he who knows Vedas and practices Ashtang Yoga and realises God, so meaning of mantra is that we, aspirants have been listening about Almighty God from Dheeranam and like this, there are so many other remaining Ved mantras, who clarify that based on the knowledge of Vedas, he who does Yagya and practice of Ashtang yoga is capable to realise the secret of Prakriti, souls and Almighty God. This is called Traitwad because it has got three eternal subjects cited later. Our ancient Rishis have preached that to know the truth, there are four authentic proofs, as also said by Patanjali Rishi in his Yog shastra sutra 1/7-
“PRATYAKSHANUMANAAGAMAHA PRAMANNANI”.
So in aagam pramaan, there are two pramaan(proofs) to realise truth:
1. “Aaptopdeshaha Shabdaha” (Sankhya shastra sutra 1/66). That is a Rishi who knows Vedas and has realized God by practicing Ashtang Yoga, is considered a proof to realise truth of traitwad cited above, which means that whatever he says is true, because he only says his experience of Samadhi (salvation) and hard study of Vedas and practical yajyen that is why, Kapil muni has told in his said sutra that the preach of such Rishis is true and is considered a proof to determine the truth.
2. Second proof in Aagam pramaan is- Four Vedas but Vedas have not been written by any Rishi etc. Vedas are the knowledge originated in the heart of four Rishis at the time of creation. So, Vedas are considered as “Swataha pramaan” (self-proof) being the knowledge direct from the God. So, Vedas need no proof. On this matter of Vedas, there are so many ved mantras like Yajurveda mantra 31/7. The said mantras says that Rigveda, Samveda, Atharvaveda and Yajurveda is the eternal knowledge from God, that is, Vedas emanated direct from God, so are self proof, that is why, Rishi Patanjali says in his Yoga Shastra Sutra-1/26.
“Saha Eshah Poorvesham Api Guruhu Kalenaan Avachedat” that is the Almighty God is the first Guru of the ancient Rishi at the time of first non-sexual creation. The God by His power originated the knowledge of four Vedas in the heart of four Rishis and thereafter the Rishi-munis of such qualities have been our Guru. Vyas muni commenting on this Sutra 1/26 says that at the time of creation, there was no Guru to give knowledge to the persons because every Rishi left his body in the previous creation, which creation had been destroyed in the final destruction of universe (Pralaya) and as a principle, until knowledge is given by anybody, the knowledge cannot be attained. So our first Guru is Almighty God, Him self who gave the knowledge of four Vedas, which was followed by our ancient Rishis traditionally and we have to follow to maintain the eternal culture and realise Prakriti, soul and God, being the main objective of this human life. Therefore, in
the whole world, that path or the knowledge is true which tallies with four Vedas. This fundamental law of God must be known by everybody seriously to reach the truth. Unluckily, most of the saints
are talking at their own accord and what a wonder even that they usually tell not to study the Vedas, not to perform the holy Yagna and not to follow the Yoga Philosophy; which are against the Vedas, the knowledge of God.
VEDAS ARE SELF PROOF AND THE BOOKS OF RISHIS ARE ALSO THE PROOF, AFTER VEDAS.
Therefore we must accept the above eternal facts to determine the truth. It means at present also, any view or any statement in the present book are considered true if it tallies with Vedas and the books written by Rishis, otherwise not this eternal tradition was adopted in the ancient times. As a result, the public mostly remained away from illusion.
In Yajurveda mantra 31/7, it is clearly mentioned that the Vedvani emanates direct from God. Yagvalkya Rishi in his Smriti tells his wife Matryi that in the beginning of every creation this formless Vani emanates from formless Almighty God in the heart of four gentlemen selected by God from the previous creation in which they were topmost in Tapsya and good conduct etc. That is why automatically they are called Rishis with their names – Agni, Vaayu, Aditya and Angira. As
the breath comes out from man similarly Ved mantras emanate from God. As outer breath is inhaled in the body so the Vedas are inhaled in God at the time of final destruction. {Please remember God is formless and has no mouth etc. This is an example and comparison only to enable us to understand the origination of eternal knowledge of Vedas otherwise neither it is exhaled nor inhaled from God.}
Further, in the heart of each of the four Rishis mentioned above, one Veda is originated without writing and without preaches. How? God is formless and Almighty, i.e., has all powers and does not require any assistance, i.e., God does not require any assistance from any Yamraj, any Yamdoot to get the soul out from any person, He does not require any assistance from any Indra, to shower water in the shape of rain, does not require any priest or preacher or Guru etc., to preach the religion to anybody because He is Almighty, He is always independent and His powers alone create and do all deeds etc., automatically.
Your views that all creation must first in mind applies in worldly matters and not spiritual matters of creation, please. Why? Because the views of ancient Rishis mentioned in their shastras, upnishads
etc., and the statements in Vedas reveal that creation is eternal and everlasting and creation starts when formless portion of divine power of God acts in Prakriti. Here, we must know as stated in Yajurveda mantra 40/4 that God cannot be realised by senses. Because our senses like ear, eye, tongue, nose and skin has limited power to see worldly matter where as God is most subtle and Formless having unlimited powers. For example our eye can see to certain limit but God sees
whole universe and even above.
Soul has limited power whereas God has unlimited powers. Soul has limited means but God requires no means and has unlimited power by which He creates, nurses, destroys and again creates the universe. Moreover, God does not have any senses like eye, ear, mind, intellect etc., because the said senses have limited powers but God without senses , being Almighty, does His divine deeds alone without any assistance. So, to say that any creation should first be in mind does not apply in the case of God since God doesnot possess any mind. Here, I would also tell that present Vedanta does not tally with Vedas. I would advise you please to read my book- Vedanta and Eternal Philosophy of Vedas part I and II wherein the matter has been explained in detail, giving the proof of Ved mantras. I appreciate your courage that inspite your sufferings heart attack and facing bye-pass surgery you are studying hard and worshipping God. Books are being sent to you. I would also advise you to please listen to some of my spiritual preach and bhajans totally based on Vedic Philosophy in CDs, if you desire.
V K: I am really happy to talk for such a long time with you. I am following what ever you said. Planning to come whenever the time permits. But I will come if you choose the dates and ask me to come. In few months my son is completing his graduation (in India) and coming to US. I am planning to come around that.
Swami Ram Swarup: My blessings to you, my daughter. It suits me very well. You are therefore welcome here on any day in the months that you indicated. Boarding and lodging are free here for everyone.
Y R: Dear Swamiji, Namaste. Please note that i did not really understand your answer kindly be a little more explicit. (Previous questions was on Vrats)
Swami Ram Swarup: My blessings to you, my daughter. My answer has projected the fact that vrat etc., mentioned by you have not been mentioned in Vedas. So, learned of Vedas never do the same and also do not promote it. So, you can go ahead to do the same and continue it. As regards, days, every day is pious day as mentioned in Vedas. So, you can do vrat etc., on any day. Yet, if you want to consult any pandit and he suggests particular days, then you can obey the pandit also.
R P Arya: Kindly send full list of your publications.
Swami Ram Swarup: The list of books has since been sent to you, please.
Kumar S: Charno me saadar pranam guruji. My question is. 1 Is it right to take gods name or do havan for those who do sexual activities? Is it sin? I am sorry for the vulgar question but whom to ask except your holiness.
Swami Ram Swarup: Aapko mera Ashirwad. Sexual activities if are in accordance with Vedas-shastras i.e., in accordance with dharma, in married life, then the person can take deeksha of God’s name and do worship. The worship of God purifies the intellect and mind and the soul. Then
person leaves kaam, krodh, madh, lobh, ahankar etc.
