Definition of Om

OM has three Hindi words. Aa,Uu and Ma. Aa is meant for Aakaar from which three names of God are built, Viraat, Agni and Vishwadi. From Uu= uukaar from which Hirnyagarbh, Vaayu and tejas names occurs and Ma = makaar from which Ishwar, Aditya and Praajyan aadi, holy names of God occurs. Rig ved mantra 1/164/ 46 says the God is one but His names are several. But here only the said names are given. Viraat means he who creates the universe. Therefore His name is Viraat.

Difference between Buddhi, Mann and Aatma

To understand the answer of the question a deep study of Rig Ved mandal 10 sukta 129 is essential. But is short one should understand about alive and non-alive matters. There are three matters in the universe. Almighty God and souls are alive. And prakriti is non-alive. It is stated in the said Rig Veda mantra 1 that when the previous universe had been destroyed and new one did not create then there was nothing to see. God, souls and prakriti was there, but in unseen stage. The sun, moon, sky, air, water, life, bodies of human beings, animals or birds, i.e., whole universe, was not there.

Adwaitvad - questions and answers - June 24, 2004

Ram Suri previous reply: The 'Amanava purusha' described in Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 guides the soul to god ('maasebya samvatsaram ....vidyu tam tatpurusho amanavaha sa yena brahma gamayatyasha devayanah pandah iti'). The meaning of this is that the soul travels from months to the year, from year to sun, from sun to moon, and from moon to lightening. Then from the region of Brahman, a non-human person, created from mind (for creation from mind, please see Br. Up. 6.2.15 - tatpurusho manas yetya brahma lokaa.) comes and guides the soul to Brahma lok. Sir! I humbly request you to read this particular reference and reply me. So that we both can start our discussion from that point onwards. Also please see, Chh. Up. 4.15.5 for the same description. Also, I request you too look Br. Up 6.2.15 for the same description. I, once again request you to give very specific and clear replies. This will also help to all people.
Swami Ramswarup: Reply is given below please.

Previous Ans from Swamiji: In this connection I have mentioned the meaning of Archi above.
Ram Suri present reply: I am not asking the meaning of Archi please. I know its meaning. It gives me an impression that now you are trying to evade the discussion by not giving concrete answer to this question. I am sure that you did not look the references I quoted from Br. Up. and Ch. Up above. After reaching the moon, the soul goes to lightening. From here, the topic of amanav purush comes into the picture, as per Br. Up. 6.2.15 - tatpurusho manas yetya brahma lokaa). You can also find the same topic in Chh. Up. 5.10.2.
Swami Ramswarup: Your views are not acceptable please. You and I or anybody is free always to quote words or meaning or anything but it does not mean that I am forcing youbto accept an do not know the meaning. This archi word, I have explained again below. You may send unlimited questions this is your right and my right is to reply as per my views. So your above views are not understood please. Please make the atmosphere sweet and calm.

Ram Suri: Now, let us see the following: Who is this person referred in the above two quotes? He is the amanav purush. Right? Where was he said to have come from in the above references? He came from Brahma Lok. Right? (Please see Br. Up. 6.2.15 - tatpurusho manas yetya brahma lokaa). Please do not say that this Brahma Lok is nothing but the physical body like that. The physical body is already dead, and thus the soul is traveling on devyan marg, and taken to Brahma Lok. That means this Brahma Lok is not representing the physical body now. Right? Where will this amanav purush lead this soul to? He will lead this soul to Brahma Lok (Please see 'yena brahma gamayati'Chh. Up. 5.10.2). Right? Please do not skip this discussion by saying that this soul does not need any assistance or like that. I am not saying that this soul requires assistance. The above references from Br. Upanishad and Chh. Upanishads are saying that. Right? Also please do not say here that Vedas donot say this or do not say that or it is against to Vedas like that. You have said previously that you have studied only 11 Upanishads (IsH, KEN, KATH, PRASHAN, MUNDAK, MANDUKYA, ETRAIYA, TETRIYE, CHHANDOGYA, BRIHIDARNAYAK AND SWETASHWTAR), which are based on Vedas. If you do not believe this, please refer your answers, posted to me on March 11, 2004. In this posting, you have given this answer. Since, my above two quotes are from Chh. Up. and Bri. Up., now you cannot say that the above references are against Vedas. Now, my question for you is that who is this Brahman to whom the amanav purush has taken this soul to? Please answer to this question. From now on, this discussion will be much more interesting for all of us. Therefore, let us confine to this topic and please answer your response soon.
Swami Ramswarup: As I have quoted above now, you and I can not suppress anybody else to make control of use toexpress. Please don't force me saying about Vedas etc. I also can not force you to express anything. I will say whatever I want and you will say whatever you want and I have regard on your questions but I will not say you to have regard on my answer but would request you not to force me to tell this and that as told above. Hope please you will not mind. Because wehave to maintain love and brotherhood at all level otherwise discussion will be over. Please excuse me if I have hurt your heart. But my request is simple and must not hurt your heart. My blessings and namaste to you.

Brihadarnyak Upnishad says in second Brahmin Shwetketu son of an Acharya reached a king of Panchal country, king Pravahann put question to shwetketu if he knows that after death where the soul goes and how again comes to this lok and what is Pitriyaan and Devyaan marg. Based on vedic philosophy the king is teaching Acharya Gautam that the learned person whoknows Vedas and knos the science of five fires or the sanyasi who has left home and ha sgone to jungle in a lonely place to worship God with trust (shradha), they both attain first the stage of Archi. Here archi means "AHAN = AHANIK" i.e., the stage of merriment. But the worldly meaning of archi is light. So first to be a learned of Vedas and knower of five fires or a sanyasi who lives in a dense jungle and does worship with trust, is necessary. The meaning of "shradha = shrat+dha iti shradha " shrat means truth i.e., Almighty and formless God and none else. Such like souls go to Devlok as I have already quoted the Yajurveda chapter 39.Then a manomaye Purush carries such souls to brahmlok. But the meaning of manomaye Purush is the utmost and unlimited realization of merriment (Brahmanand) and this stage makes sure for such souls to realize God. Such souls then remain in brahmlok i.e., attains moksh.

In Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/2 all has been said according to the 39th chapter of Yajurveda which I have already explained before. Then the upnishad say that the soul of leartned is having the result of unlimited auspicious/pious deeds andstating the world TAT PURUSHAHA AMANAVAH here the amanav means, based on the unlimited rtesult of pious deeds, such souls attain Brahm i.e., immersed in Braham and this is called Devyaan marg; that the soul has attained the God/immersed in Anand, gyan and Jyotiswarup Brahm. But the soul has not become Brahm. This happens like a swimmer who dives in the water infull for sometime and then again comes out. Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/1,2 says, "ARCHISM ABHI SAMBHAVNTI" i.e., such souls divert towards Archism i.e., jyoti (light) i.e., they become like jyotiswarup. So such learned souls are themselves archi and amanav. Here learnes souls means the soul of a Yogi- Rishi or Muni who has attained Brahm and has got moksh such i.e.,merriment of salvation. Amanav means he who is lack of proud and is humble. In this connection Sankhya shastra sutra 3/78 to 82 which I have quoted before also states that the learned soul while living in body become jeevanmukt. Because if he is not alive then who will give the real knowledge to the aspirants. Otherwise sutra 3/81 says that there will be a tradition of blind faith.

Chhandogya Upnishad 4/15/5 says such learned soul who has attained salvation, when dies then whether his cremation wherte the dead body met with fire are performed or not is immaterial because his soul has attained salvation or eternal jyoti. Thereason is that when his body is burnt then his body is put into fire and such cremation is not done then yet the soul of learned has already attain salvation and jyoti (light). Because funeral is meant for body and not for soul. First his soul becomes archi i.e., ray of light then the light increases like day light then light increases land becomes like a light of Puranmasi (jyoti), it increases further light becomes of six months then years and then becomes like Aditya i.e.,the soul's light seems to be light equivalent to Aditya (sun). Then from Aditya jyoti to chandra jyoti and chandra jyoti to vidyut jyoti and this process the soul of manav itself becomes a manav. Now please send your comments.

I have given this reply based on Vedas and upnishads comments by Vidya Martand Dr. Satyavrat Sidhantalankaar Ex. M.P. and vice chancellor, Gurkul Kangri University. If you can study, please study these Upnishads, if not then it is okay because it is not compulsion. The eternal knowledge are four Vedas and 11 upnishads quoted by you above also have been written by those Rishis and even Bhagwat Geeta, who were the philosopher of four Vedas and ashtang yog philosopjhy. And those Rishis have mentioned in the upnisahd and six shastras and Geeta that they first gained knowledge from Vedas and practiced ashtang yog then they wrote the said holy books. So it is my opinion and not compulsion that before studying the said holy books the study of Vedas and practice of ashtang yog is a compulsion to know the real meaning of the words of the said holy books. It is my opinion and cannot not be forced on anybody please. Yog shastra sutra 1/7 clearly asks the proof of Ved mantra on anybody's views to justify the truth. Now I have totally finished the matter of archi and amanav from my side only please.

Views on current swamis

God has made universe and bless us human body to do pious deeds only. He has not made any heaven or hell. All have to face the result of their deeds good or bad here only even by taking rebirth. God has not only made universe but has also given knowledge of four Vedas where your answer to question and everyone's answer to question have been given.

There are four Vedas, 1. Rig Veda gives knowledge of science, matter of the universe like sun, moon, air body etc., etc.,

Quest to realize truth in human life

The target of a human life to realize truth under the guidance of a Guru even continues (in) the family life like Shri Ram, sita etc., or a brahamcharya life like Bal brahmcharini Gargi who was the Guru of king Janak. But now a days due to attraction in materialistic articles only the people have become ignorant about the path of eternal spiritualism for which we have been blessed with a human body.

Adwaitvad - questions and answers - June 13, 2004

Swamiji's previous reply: I have quoted chapter 39th of Yajurveda and in its mantra 6 it is mentioned that the soul, after leaving the body wanders first day in Surya second in Agni third Vaayu fourth Aditya, fifth chandrma, 6 Ritu etc., etc. But these are called padarth (matter and non -alive), please. and not alive deity.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! I agree that soul wanders at surya, agni etc. But I do not agree for your saying that surya, agni, vaayu etc are padarth (matter and non-alive) materials. If this under standing of yours is correct, then how come Lord Krishna in 4/1 of Gita says that he had given the teaching of yoga to Surya dev? As per your understanding of scriptures, if surya is also a non-alive thing, then no one can teach the science of yoga to a non-alive, padarth thing. Because, a non-alive thing cannot understand even a very great truth is given to it. Right? But in Gita, Lord Krishna made references that surya dev, after learning the science of yoga from Lord Krishna or divine, in turn gave the same teaching to Manu. A non-alive thing cannot learn anything and cannot teach anything to others. Right? When surya dev is leant the science of yoga from Lord Krishna and then later instructed this knowledge to Manu, it means that surya dev is not a non-alive matter, but he is a god (dev, different from divine), having a body and a soul. Right? The body of surya dev is different from our physical body. The conclusion, therefore, is that your understanding that sury, agni etc are non-alive matters is not correct sir.
Swami Ramswarup: The sun shining in the sky is non- alive matter made from prakriti as said in Kapil Muni's Samkhya Shastra sutra 1/26, Rigveda mandal 10 sukta 129, and in ateryo upnishad shlok 1/2. But we are not concerned about these non-alive suyra etc. But I recollect that somewhere you have told that the shining sun in the sky has a body and in his body he has alive soul also. And Yogeshwar Shri Krishna has given the yoga knowledge to soul of the sun. This is not accepted please being against the Vedas. Non-alive matters have no soul only man, woman, birds and animals' bodies have souls and Almighty God being omnipresent. Rigveda mandal 10 sukta 181 clarifies that the God has originated the knowledge of fourVedas to Agni, Vayu, Aditya and Angira Rishi. These Rishis further gave this knowledge of four Vedas to Brahma. Brahma was also a Rishi and took birth from parents. Brahma gave this knowledge further to others.

God creates five matters agni, vayu, jal, akash and prithvi. Akash is antriksh wherein sun the non-alive matter shines. But it does not need that agni, vayu, surya, angira can not be a name of alive person. Today also so many suraj or suryadev are the name of boy or man. But in deep Yajurveda mantra 32/1 says that agni, aditya(sun), vayu and chandrma, shukram, braham, apah (water) and omnipresent are also the name of God. You may study these please because these are the unchanged proof. Geeta's original shlok 4/1 say that yog vidya was given to Vivaswan and not surya. But the meaning of Vivaswan is surya. And this Vivaswan/surya was an alive person who further gave this knowledge to his son Manu.

Ram Suri: You know well that sun, moon, agni, vaayu etc are associated with the departed soul in devyan marg. Right? You contended that these are non-alive material things. Right? But in Brahma Sutras 4.3.4, the sutra (Ativahhikasllingat) indicates that sun, moon, agni etc cannot be a mere sign posts on the road side for the departing soul on devyan marg. This sutra indicates that sun, moon agni etc are various deities. If you do not believe me, please, see sri Shankara commentary on Brahma Sutras. If you do not believe sri Shankar's commentary, then please see sri Ramanuja's commentary for this sutra. You have expressed earlier that sri Ramanuja has done lot of work that tallys with Vedas. That means you have faith on him and his commentaries. I request you humbly to read his commentaries in this regard and after confirmation, please reply me your understanding on this issue sir.
Swami Ramswarup: Yogeshwar Shri Krishna studied four Vedas with sakha Sudama in Gurukul of Rishi Sandeepan. Shri Krishna that is why says in shlok 3/15 that Vedas are originated from God. So Vedas are SWATAH PRAMAAN and needs no other Pramaan (proof) please. All Vedas say that the knowledge of Vedas and yoga was given by God Himself. And originated in the heart of four Rishis amongst whom there was Surya Rishi also. In Braham sutra 4/3/4 the meaning of Archi is Rashmi. Therefore the days and night are only meant for those places where the Rashmi i.e., lights are available. But soul is himself is a ocean of light and needs no any more light and crosses all these surya etc., to reach the destination. Chandogya upnishad 8/6/5 also refers.

Swamiji's previous reply: In Vedas Devayan marg means the soul has got salvation and pitriyann marg means the soul who has not got salvation and requiresrebirth. And salvation is always while living in body. This is also quoted in Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7.
Ram Suri previous reply: Sir! With due respect I would like to say that I have very clear concepts about Devyan and Pitriyan margs. Your understanding that salvation is always living in body is not completely accurate. This is only applicable to those persons who experienced the divine while living. These persons are called jeevan muktas. It is very pity that you are thinking that these jeevan muktas also follow archiradhi marg (which is also called devyan path) to achieve salvation. It is very, very wrong. If you do not believe me, please, please ask some enlightened person to find out the truth. The type of salvation that Jeevan muktas gets is called sadhyo mukti, which is entirely different from krama mukti, which is resulted due to following of soul by archiradhi marg. Sir! I am sorry to say that since you are lack of thorough Upanishad knowledge, you are getting confusion again and again. I do not have any anger against you, but I feel pity very sincerely for you. I am very much astonished to see that you do not even know that there are two types of salvations, as per Upanishads. Now, please let us see what the reference Chhandogya Upanishad 5/10/7, as quoted by you, is concerned about. This reference is concernedabout Pitriyani marg. In fact, the description of Pitriyani marg started from Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/ 3 to 7. Honestly, the reference you quoted (Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7) does not say that salvation is always while living in body, and in your above answer, you have even claimed that this is also quoted inChhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7. Sir! This is not good. Please show my answer and your answer to an enlightened person, and ask who is right. He will tell the correct answer.
Swami Ramswarup: The oldest books of the earth are lying in the world's library called four Vedas. To realise the truth the proof of Vedas are required please. I had already told this fact and Rishi Patanjali in his sutra 1/7 has told about proof of Vedas as Swatah Pramaan. And proof of shastras/upnishads are Partah Pramaan.

Ram Suri present reply: Sir! You did not make any comments on my remarks on the reference quoted by you from Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7 in your previous reply. For the sake of verification, I have also put your previous replies above. Please vide them. This particular reference does not say that salvation is always while living in body. I did not understand why you had quoted this reference in your previous reply in support of your claim that salvation is always while living in a body. I once again say that this reference does not match with your claim. Instead of replying to this remark, you suddenly jumped to Patanjali yoga sutra reference. I once again request you humbly to look into this particular reference and make your comments to my present response. On the other hand, if you have quoted Chhandogya Upanishad 5/10/7 reference by error in your previous reply to me, then it is ok, and I won't be serious on it. Now, please let us see what the above Patanjali sutra reference says. In the above sutra 1/7, the 'agama praman' does not talk exclusively about Vedas please. It implies about sruti. I know that the term sruti is also not found in this sutra. But it is implied there. Vedas are sruti. Similarly, Upanishads are also sruti. It means, as per 'agama praman' the sruti (both Vedas and Upanishads) are considered to be valid. In your above answer, you have selectively mentioned about Vedas, but there is no such word mentioned in agama praman. It only implied about the scriptures. When Upanishads are sruti, (like Vedas), then Upanishad teachings are also as important as Vedas, please. Therefore, Upanishad teachings are also taken as perfect proof in spiritual matters please.
Swami Ramswarup: When the proof of Vedas has been given then no other proof is essential please.

Ram Suri present reply: Please see my above answer. Vedas and Upanishads are sruti, and thus equally valid as proofs. One sruti will not condemn the teachings of another sruti in spiritual matters, and thus all have equal importance.
Swami Ramswarup: Upnishads/shastras/Mahabharta(Geeta) contains the knowledge of Vedas because their writer were the philosopher of Vedas called Rishis and Munis.

Ram Suri present reply: Correct. Bhagawat Gita is the knowledge of Vedas. In the beginning of 4/6-8 slokas of Gita, Lord Krishna says that he takes birth in different forms in order to establish dharm on the earth. But you do not believe in that. One hand you say that you believe Bhagawat Gita, because it is the knowledge of Vedas, but on the other hand you do not believe that Lord Krishna being the divine, and taken birth in the human form for some specific purposes as per 4th chapter 6-8 slokas. You say that divine does not need any assistance from anyone. When Gita is the knowledge of Vedas, then when Lord Krishna says that he takes different births as per 4/6-8 slokas, then do you say that 4/6-8 slokas are self made by Lord Krishna? Sir! This is the contradiction on your part. Can you please reply me?
Swami Ramswarup: I have already told that God and Vedas being God's eternal knowledge are supreme. Yog shastra sutra 1/26 clarify that God is the first Guru of Angira, Vaayu,Aditya and Agni Rishis. If God could not have given the knowledge then from where the knowledge of upnishad, shastras and Geeta could come on the earth. Vedas are shruti only because that this knowledge is to be listened and not read. It was from mouth to mouth from ancient times. As per Rigveda mantra 8/100/11 the Vedas mantras are first chanted by Agni, Vaayu, Surya and Angira Rishis and by listening it was got by other Rishis. Rigveda mantra 1/112/1 and Samveda mantra 744 also refers who says that this knowledge is traditional and must not be broken and our Rishis have not broken this and traditionally they have been listening and became Rishis by listening the Vedas. Now very few listen Vedas and have broken the tradition. Upnishads, Shastras etc., were written by Rishis themselves and they told the knowledge to their disciples themselves. But in the case of God, He originated the Vedas knowledge in the heart of Rishis Agni, Vayu etc., Rishi and did not spoke Himself because God does not require any assistant like mouth, eyes etc., to make understand any knowledge to anybody that is why He is God and we are souls. Now the definition of Vedas is not that Vedas are books. Books are called Samhita. Kapil Muni in his Samkhya sutra5/48 has mentioned that the undesired knowledge originated in a heart of a Yogi. Sutra 5/51 says that Vedas are SWATAH PRAMAAN so the Yoga shastra sutra 1/7 is also 100% correct (PRATAKSHANUMANAGAMAHA PRAMANANI) and needs no clarification being PARTAH PRAMAAN and in this connection Samkhya shastra sutra 1/66 also refers.

Swami Ramswarup previous reply: So the Amanav if gets salvation after death then ho will teach the real salvation path to the aspirants.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! You are mixing up lot of things here. Your above answer was not specific. But I am talking very specifically with the references. The 'Amanava purusha' described in Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 guides the soul to god ('maasebya samvatsaram....vidyu tam tatpurusho amanavaha sa yena brahmagamayatyasha devayanah pandah iti'). The meaning of this is that the soul travels from months to the year, from year to sun, from sun to moon, and from moon to lightening. Then from the region of Brahman, a non-human person, created from mind (for creation from mind, please see Br. Up. 6.2.15 - tatpurusho manas yetya brahma lokaa.) comes and guides the soul to Brahma lok. Sir! I humbly request you to read this particular reference and reply me. So that we both can start our discussion from that point onwards. Also please see, Chh. Up. 4.15.5 for the same description. Also, I request you too look Br. Up 6.2.15 for the same description. I, once again request you to give very specific and clear replies. This will also help to all people.
Swami Ramswarup: In this connection I have mentioned the meaning of Archi above.

Swamiji's previous reply: And as regards rebirth, I have quoted already the Rigveda mantra 1/24/1,2. Shri Krishna Maharaj is giving knowledge in 8/23,24 &25about Uttrayann and Dakishnayann and concludes in shlok 8/26 saying JAGATAH SHUKLA-- KRISHNE i.e., the shukla and Krishnn paksh are the saying of Jagat. That it is being said in the jagat-- world--- public i.e., not in Vedas or by Rishis Munis.
Ram Suri previous reply: Sir! Your interpretation of Gita 8/26 sloka is not correct. In this sloka, Lord Krishna says that both shukla and Krishna paths are eternal in this jagat (material world). But you are saying that these two paths are the sayings of jagat. Sir! Where did you read this type of interpretation for this sloka? I am astonished to see your understanding of scriptures do not tally with SriVyas, Sri Shankara or Sri Ramanuja explanations. Sri Ramanuja did not give interpretation like the way you had given for this sloka. Please read at least SriRamanuja's bhasyam on Gita. In spiritualism, public sayings have no meaning. Also please remember, Lord Krishna's sayings in Gita are not public sayings.
Swami Ramswarup: This is according to Vedas and I have read in Bhagwat Geeta commented by (Bhashyakaar) Vidyamartand Dr. Satyavrat Sidhantalankar. Public saying has no meaning. Neither my nor anybody else's saying but Vedas, shastras and Bhagwat Geeta's has got meaning. Please read wonderful comments on this shloka by Dr. Satyavrat quoted above which are according to Vedas.

Swamiji's previous reply: Please quote any ved mantra in your support.Because the decision from Vedas is only final and the decision of Geeta/upnishad is also final if the comments thereon are from philosopher of Vedas otherwise comments like Tirth, Yajga, Dev, etc., given by those who have not studied Vedas are not final. Because the said pious holy books have been written by ancient mantradrishta Rishis, the philosopher of Vedas and yoga and must now also needs comments like those dignities.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Why did you not quote any Ved mantra reference for your interpretation of Gita 8/26 sloka in your above answer?
Swami Ramswarup: Now Please study atharvaveda mantra quoted underneath.

Ram Suri previous reply: If you believe that your interpretation is right, then you should have given Ved mantra proof for this type of interpretation for 8/26 sloka also. Right? But you did not give any Ved mantra reference. Previously you said that Sri Ramanaujam had done a lot of work that tally with Vedas. Sri Ramanuja did not give interpretation for this sloka the way you had given currently. As per your understanding, if Sri Ramanujam's works tally with Vedas, then his interpretation of 8/26 should also tally correctly as per Vedas. Right? Also if you think that your interpretation is in accordance of Vedas, then it means that your interpretation should also match with Sri Ramanuja interpretation. Right?
Swami Ramswarup: Shri Ramanujam were Vishisht Adwaitvadi. He accepted that there are three tatv separate from each other i.e., God ,soul and jagat. But Jeev (chitt) and jagat (achitt) both are one the suksham sharir of God and this does not tally with the Vedas. We have to follow the shlok or views which are totally tally with the Vedas please.

Salvation according to the Vedas is based on Rigveda (Gyan Kand), Yajurveda (Karam kand), Saamveda (Upasana Kand)i.e., gyan, karam and upasana. It is not possible that anyone can get salvation by gyan only. And the meaning of gyan is not only an experience of divine. Rigveda gives the knowledge (gyan) of all matters of the universe including body. If we do not know about our body, prakriti and soul assaid in Bhagwat Geeta shlok 13/1-6 then it is not possible to know the divine. Secondly if we have knowledge to burn the fire of cooking gas by studying books etc., that is why doing karam, but if we will not do the karam to burn the burner then our knowledge is of no use. In upasana we have to do stuti i.e., description of God's qualities, prayer and dhyan (upasana) by which the God is known and His blessings are obtained. Then in absence of upasana the gyan and karam have no role to realize God. So as per Vedas gyan, karam and upasana are essential please.

Swamiji's previous reply: My dear, now you have created a loving atmoshphere so you must be assured that there is nothing that in our heart and you must discuss and continue this pious matter freely. As I have told above with the references that I never denied Devyan and Dakishnayann marg but meaning thereof is salvation and non-salvation respectively. But as you previously told about subtle body, so based on that there are no two types of salvation please.
Ram Suri previous reply: Sir! The issue of presence of subtle body in absolute sense for soul is a different topic. We will come to that point also slowly. I know very well that davyan marg is for salvation, and pitriyan marg is to return to samsar. But what I am saying is that salvation is of two types. One is achieved slowly by following davyan marg (also called krama mukti path) and the other type of salvation is called sadhyo mukti, meant for people like jeevan muktas. This type of classification for salvation is found in Upanishads. I have already quoted an Upanishad reference in my previous posting. I request you to read it for clear understanding please.
Swami Ramswarup: Please quote any Veda mantra about two types of salvation quoted by you. In discussion proof is essential so please do not mind and I hope you will maintain love forever.

Ram Suri present reply: Sir! I agree that proof is essential. But I have already given the required proof in my previous mail. You did not look and read that proof. Here I am giving it again. Please see Varaho Upanishad, 4.5 for two types of salvations. Lord Ram also expressed similar views in Muktiko Upanishad. Please refer them and reply to me sir.
Swami Ramswarup: Because I have not read the upnishad quoted by you. So please give reference either of 11 upnishads already quoted by me before.

Ram Suri previous request: Can you please reply whether you agree that the soul is guided to a god by a amanava purush as per Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 reference? If you agree up to point, then we can proceed further slowly.
Swamiji's previous reply: God is Almighty, please. Therefore He needs no any assistant that after leaving the body anybody will teach the aspirants. In Shevtashwaropnishad 6/8 it is said --- SWABHAVIKI GYANAM BALAM KRIYA CH i.e.,gyan, bal, and karam of Almighty God are swabhavik (naturally) i.e., needs no assistance.
Ram Suri previous reply: Here, you are talking totally out of context. In my above request, I said that as per Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 reference whether you agree to the point that the soul is guided to a god by amanava purusha. This question is still valid and still unanswered. I request you to read this reference first and then let me know its meaning, so that, we will move forward from that point onwards.
Swami Ramswarup: Answer is already clear please that God needs no assistance i.e., the mukti is while alive and in body and the amanav means Devyan marg.

Swamiji’s previous reply: Answer has been already given above and in previous discussion also that God is Almighty and needs no assistant that after leaving the body any amanav soul would teach the other soul to go to God. Salvation always is in living body and not after death. Now as I have requested above please open the whole issue after 13th June, 04.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! You are giving here a very generalized reply to me while my above question belongs specifically to Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 reference. I once again request you to look in to this reference and then please reply me.
Swami Ramswarup: Answer is already clear please that God needs no assistance i.e., the mukti is while alive and in body and the amanav means Devyan marg.

In Samkhya shastra sutra 1/23 Kapil Muni says that the bookish knowledge is only to deliver the lecture and cannot be beneficial to realize God. Because this knowledge is based on the chitta only. Though it is at first stage necessary but the second stage of realsing God in the main target of the human beings. And this realization is based on listening of Vedas, doing Yagya, and practicing ashtang yoga philosophy as said in four Vedas. Vedas are the knowledge direct from God who gives salvation and merriment to aspirant. So it cannot be told that Vedas require any experience or Vedas are not needed to realise God. Kapil Muni in his Samkhya shastra sutra 3/78 says "JEEVANMUKTASCH" i.e., salvation is attained while alive. The purush while doing deeds and while alive, is also having moksh (mukta) that is why he is called "Jeevanmuktasch" vide his sutra 3/80, Kapil Muni clarified that all our Rishi, Munis who wrote Brahmin Granth and Vedic culture got salvation while they were alive. Otherwise who will give the realized experience of God to the public? Yajurveda mantra 31/8 says that until and unless a person realizes God within him while alive, he cannot overcome the death and thus he cannot get salvation that is why Atharvaveda mantra 8/9/10 clearly says that amongst severals a rare person knows the connection between Vedas and God. No doubt that anyone can declare himself the wisest and enlightened but Vedas and Yask Muni in his Shatpath Brahmin Granth says as a proof in token that only he who knows Vedas in full and thus have realized God by way of Vedas, he is the Mantradrishta Rishi, a Vidwan. That is why Tulsi also says in Uttrakand," SHRUTI VIRODH SAB NAR NAARI " i.e., now a days most of the people are against the Vedas and he further says in Uttrakand Doha 99(a) ---" BRAHAM GYAN BINU NAARI KAHIHIN NA DOOSRI BAAT" i.e., man or woman do not talk any other topic less than Braham Gyan. So this is our moral duty to study and obey the Vedas. Prashnopnishad (1st question) says that days, nights, years etc., are made by Sun. there are two parts of a year, for six months the sun turns towards southern (Dakshin) and next six months it turns towards North (Uttar) and thus these times are called Dakshinayan and Uttarayan respectively. The moon is representative of worldly articles. So those who do "ISHTA PURTA" i.e., Yagya-Yag aadi (ISHT) and to dig well,bawdi and to built orphanages etc., for worldly articles, their path is of Dakshinayan--- Pitriyan and thus are indulged in birth and death again and again. On the other hand those who become ascetic and by Tapsya, yogabhayas, Vedas knowledge etc., get salvation, their path is of Uttrayan--- Devyan marg. But this is only time factor made by sun, shining in the sky. So one should always make his path of Uttrayan--- Devyan marg by doing pious deeds and Tapsya etc., otherwise for whole of life there will be dakshinayan marg. It has no concern with a Yogi or a Rishi etc., to leave the body i.e., if a Yogi leaves a body when sun is turned towards southern then it does not mean that the Yogi who has already got salvation, will take rebirth and his all yoga, tapsya etc., said in Bhagwat Geeta shlok 7/19 will go in vain. In this connection Atharvaveda mantra 15/17/7-10, and mantra 15/18/2-5, as desired by you are referred. I would request you toplease study these mantras.

Chandrlok said in Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7 indicates Dakshinayan marg--- Pitriyan marg (Chandrlok) because Chandr i.e., moon is a rep. Of worldly articles as told above. So Bhagwat Geeta shlok 8/6 is according to Atharvaveda mantra cited above and Chhandogya Upnishad shlok 5/10/7. As regards Chhandogya 5/10/2 I have described about Pitriyan and Devyan marg. The meaning of Shukla paksh is to die while doing pious deeds and is of krishan paksh to die while doing sins.

Vedic tips for pregnant ladies by Swami Ramswarup

It is said in four Vedas that, "Mother is the creator of child's future." It is in her hands that how she builds her child's future by adopting good spiritual preach which is all mentioned in four Vedas. Some of the preaches are written here. Always be cheerful, wear pious ornaments, wear very much light coloured clothes and not dark, should keep peace in her mind, think welfare of others, should serve her Acharya/Guru (who knows Vedas), avoid such things which can cause anxiety to her. Don't take stale food, dry food like fired vegetables etc.

Comments on translations by Piyush Trivedi

Comments on translations by Piyush Trivedi:
1. "ahannya hani bhootaani gachhantiha yamaalayamseshaaha sthaawar michhanti kimascharyamataha param"(mahaabhaarata yaksha udhisthir samvaad)

Live people think that I will survive, even though theysee every day that others are dying.

Meaning of the sholk:-- All the personal are going toYamlok but the remaining personal are desirous ofliving. OH! What a wonder more than this.

Adwaitvad - questions and answers - April 14, 2004

Ram Suri: We need to focus more on our topic. Please read my following answers, and email me. I once again say that I have no egoism or anger to express myviews.
Swami Ramswarup: My dear I have felt your heart clearance and you must be rest assured that I always appreciate you on this pious discussion. So please do not repeat again and again. Because this is pious deed and not materialistic one.

Swamiji's previous reply: I have quoted chapter 39th of Yajurveda and in its mantra 6 it is mentioned that the soul, after leaving the body wanders first day in Surya second in Agni third Vaayu fourth Aditya, fifth chandrma, 6 Ritu etc., etc. But these are called padarth (matter and non -alive), please. And not alive deity.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Here we are talking about salvation. Right? After Ritu, where does the soul go? Can you please let me know the names of non-alive deity after Ritu till the end of this path? So that, we can take our discussion further.
Swami Ramswarup: I usually try to give answer in short with an intention that remaining answer you will choose from Vedas which will increase a lot of knowledge at all level. Now please complete the answer, after Ritu Marutah, then Brihaspatihi, then Mitrah, then Varunah, then Indrah, then at last Vishvedevaha. Then after wandering sometime the soul who got no salvation takes rebirth (bodies) according to karmas.

Swamiji's previous reply: In Vedas Devayan marg means the soul has got salvation and pitriyann marg means the soul who has not got salvation and requiresrebirth. And salvation is always while living in body. This is also quoted in Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! With due respect I would like to say that I have very clear concepts about Devyan and Pitriyan margs. Your understanding that salvation is always living in body is not completely accurate. This is only applicable to those persons who experienced the divine while living. These persons are called jeevan muktas. It is very pity that you are thinking that these jeevan muktas also follow archiradhi marg (which is also called devyan path) to achieve salvation. It is very, very wrong. If you donot believe me, please, please ask some enlightened person to find out the truth. The type of salvation that Jeevan muktas gets is called sadhyo mukti, which is entirely different from krama mukti, which is resulted due to following of soul by archiradhi marg. Sir! I am sorry to say that since you are lack of thorough Upanishad knowledge, you are gettingconfusion again and again. I do not have any anger against you, but I feel pity very sincerely for you sir. I am very much astonished to see that you do not even know that there are two types of salvations, as per Upanishads. Now, please let us see what thereference Chhandogya Upanishad 5/10/7, as quoted by you, is concerned about. This reference is concerned about Pitriyani marg. In fact, the description of Pitriyani marg started from Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/ 3 to 7. Honestly, the reference you quoted (Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7) does not say that salvation is always while living in body, and in your above answer, you have even claimed that this is also quoted in Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7. Sir! This is not good. Please show my answer and your answer to anenlightened person, and ask who is right. He will tell the correct answer.
Swami Ramswarup: The oldest books of the earth are lying in the world's library called four Vedas. To realise the truth the proof of Vedas are required please. I had already told this fact and Rishi patanjali in his sutra 1/7 has told about proof of Vedas as Swatah Pramaan. And proof of shastras/upnishads are Partah Pramaan. When the proof of Vedas has been given then no other proof is essential please. But if yet shastras/upnishads proof is mentioned which are even true but our Rishis still requires the proof of Vedas being Swatah Pramaan. I mentioned Rigveda mantra about Devyan (salvation)marg and Pitriyan about rebirth, so no other proof is essential. Upnishads/shastras/Mahabharta(Geeta) contains the knowledge of Vedas because their writer were the philosopher of Vedas called Rishis and Munis. Rigvedas 10/53/6 says Manuhu Bhav i.e., have the deepest study and discussion on Ved mantras. In the past three yugas the said study/discussion up to Vyas Muni was traditional and the public was happy. The shastras etc., are written by Rishis/Munis but Vedas have not been written by anybody else. This knowledge is direct from God as mentioned in every Vedas, Manu smriti and every shastras/Geeta/Upnishad/Valmiki Ramayan/Mahabharta/Shatpath Brahmin granth etc. I quote here an example please. In Yajurveda mantra 4/11 the meaning of TIRTH is the place where philosopher of Vedas (Rishis-Munis) resides, performs Yajna from Veda mantras and do ashtang yoga, where the aspirant must go to learn the same. But now this meaning has totally been changed. So now the Manan- Chintan (study etc.,) is being carried out on the present meaning and not on the eternal word Tirth. So if we go in the deep and still study the upnishad which have been commented by those who are philosopher of Vedas then only we can understand the real meaning of all culture of above said shastras/Geeta/Upnishads etc., then we find reality. As said above Manuhu Bhav means study of Vedas and not others, because said by God Himself in above Rigveda mantra. After studying Vedas we must study upnishads/shastras/geeta etc/., which are Rishi made holy books and true, but we have left the Vedas totally and are studying and discussing on the meanings of the words like Tirth. Heartily I request not to mind please but continue to send your views whether you accept my views or not. I always love and appreciate you. Everybody is free to adopt any path but when discussion is there then too we must be free but our love must be constant and permanent. So God has told Manuhu Bhav and not has told to study others leaving Vedas, the eternal knowledge. Why we should be suppressed to study and discuss the views of man made whereas the knowledge /views of God are there in Vedas.

Swamiji's previous reply: The sun, for six months remain in Uttrayann and for six months in Dakishnnayan, so it does not mean that the people who have done thousands of sins and are dead in Uttrayann will get salvation, and the Yogi leaves body in Dakishnnayan will get rebirth. The God is Almighty and the result of karmas is always in His power only. So while living a Yogi can teach the path of salvation to others as mentioned also in Samkhya sutra 3/78," JEEVANMUKTASCH " i.e., the Yogi who is alive because of living in the body is called alive and because he has got salvation so is called "Mukta". In the next sutra 3/79 Kapil Muni says that because the Yogi is alive and has experienced the realization of God that is why he only delivers the authentic preach and no others can do like this. So the Amanav if gets salvation after death then who will teach the real salvation path to the aspirants.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! I will be grateful to you if you could tell me who this amanava purusha in your above answer, and if possible, please quote Upanishad reference. Also please tell me what is the definition of uttarayan and dakshinayan in relation to salvation, and why these terms are used at all?
Swami Ramswarup: I already briefed the matter and it will take some time to rewrite. These are the days when we start four Vedas Anushthan and yoga camp from this month till second week of June. The public from all states attends. I have to devote about fourteen hours daily to preach every mantra in Hindi and to teach ashtang yoga. So please put this question after 13th June, 04. I think you will not mind please. So our next discussion will commence from 14th June please. I send my namaste to you with whole heart.

Swamiji's previous reply: Devyan is only salvation path and not dakishnayann, please.
Ram Suri present reply: But who said that dakshinayana path is a salvation path? I never said that. Then, what is your above answer pointing at sir?
Swamiji's previous reply: Association with light means salvation and with dark means rebirth because of NISHKAAM AMD SAKAAM KARMAS etc. You can say gyan marg and karam marg.
Ram Suri present reply: Please, you are using the gyan marg and karma marg in very loose sense. I will say here again that I have clear concepts about what is gyan and karma, and how they both would become synonymous to each other at the highest level. But I am not interested to debate on this issue with you after seeing how loosely these terms are used in your above answer.
Swami Ramswarup: If you have clear concept then I would request you to please quote Ved mantra as a proof.

Swamiji's previous reply: The souls, which follow Devyan marg get salvation
Ram Suri present reply: Gita also says the same thing. I agree to it. And I also know and agree that pitriyani marg makes the soul to take birth in samsar.
Swamiji's previous reply: and as regards rebirth, I have quoted already the Rigveda mantra 1/24/1,2. Shri Krishna Maharaj is giving knowledge in 8/23,24 &25 about Uttrayann and Dakishnayann and concludes in shlok 8/26 saying JAGATAH SHUKLA-- KRISHNE i.e., the shukla and Krishnn paksh are the saying of Jagat. That it is being said in the jagat-- world--- public i.e., not in Vedas or by Rishis Munis.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Your interpretation of Gita 8/26 sloka is not correct. In this sloka, Lord Krishna says that both shukla and Krishna paths are eternal in this jagat (material world). But you are saying that these two paths are the sayings of jagat.Sir! Where did you read this type of interpretation for this sloka? I am astonished to see your understanding of scriptures do not tally with sri Vyas, sri Shankara or sri Ramanuja explanations. Sri Ramanuja did not give interpretation like the way you had given for this sloka. Please read at least sri Ramanuja's bhasyam on Gita. In spiritualism, public sayings have no meaning. Also please remember, Lord Krishna's sayings in Gita are not public sayings.
Swami Ramswarup: Please quote any Ved mantra in your support. Because the decision from Vedas is only final and the decision of Geeta/upnishad is also final if thecomments thereon are from philosopher of Vedas otherwise comments like Tirth, Yajga, Dev, etc., given by those who have not studied Vedas are not final. Because the said pious holy books have been written by ancient mantradrishta Rishis, the philosopher of Vedas and yoga and must now also needs comments like those dignities.

Swamiji's previous reply: So in next shlok 8/27 Yogeshwar Shri Krishna Maharaj says ETE SRITI JANAN i.e., the Yogi who knows about these two paths andit's truth that these paths makes no difference in the matter of salvation KAH CHANA YOGI NA MUHYATI i.e., no any Yogi has any attachment or any doubt about thesaid two paths and salvation. So O Arjuna! SARVESHU KALESHU i.e., in all times (whether uttaryann or Dakishnayann or Devyan or Pitriyan) you YOG YUKTAHBHAVA i.e., always remain yourself a Yogi. I.e., if one has attained the salvation and has become Yogi so his salvation is meant for all the time without effecting Uttrayann or Dakshinayann. So from using the word Jagat Shri Krishna has himself said imaginationthat it is a world's saying only and a Yogi is not attached with the world's saying. Now you kindly send your views. Because I can't deny Bhagwat Geeta at any moment.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Neither sri Shankara nor Sri Ramanuja said the meaning for this sloka in this way. So, on one hand I would say that I respect yourviews, and on the other hand, I would say that your understanding of this sloka is not correct 100%.
Swami Ramswarup: Here the differences arise because four Vedas says the salvation through gyan, karam, and Upasana whereas anyone can say and he is free to say that salvation is meant only on gyan and not karam and upasana and other can say that salvation is based on bhakti and nothing else like karma etc. So please clear this point whether you accept Vedas knowledge i.e., gyan ,karam and upasana or not.

Swamiji's previous reply: My dear, now you have created a loving atmosphere so you must be assured that there is nothing that in our heart and you must discuss and continue this pious matter freely. As I have told above with the references that I neverdenied Devyan and Dakishnayann marg but meaning thereof is salvation and non-salvation respectively. But as you previously told about subtule body, so based on that there are no two types of salvation please.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! The issue of presence of subtle body in absolute sense for soul is a different topic. We will come to that point also slowly. I know very well that davyan marg is for salvation, and pitriyan marg is to return to samsar. But what I am saying is that salvation is of two types. One is achieved slowly by following davyan marg (also called krama mukti path) and the other type of salvation is called sadhyo mukti, meant for people like jeevan muktas. This type of classification for salvation isfound in Upanishads. I have already quoted an Upanishad reference in my previous posting. I request you to read it for clear understanding please.
Swami Ramswarup: Please quote any Veda mantra about two types of salvation quoted by you. In discussion proof is essential so please do not mind and I hope you will maintain love forever.

Ram Suri previous request: Can you please reply whether you agree that the soul is guided to a god by a amanava purush as per Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 reference? If you agree up to point, then we can proceed further slowly.
Swamiji's previous reply: God is Almighty, please. Therefore He needs no any assistant that after leaving the body anybody will teach the aspirants. In Shevtashwaropnishad 6/8 it is said --- SWABHAVIKI GYANAM BALAM KRIYA CH i.e., gyan, bal, and karam of Almighty God are swabhavik (naturally) i.e., needs no assistance.
Ram Suri present reply: Here, you are talking totally out of context. In my above request, I said that as per Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 reference whether you agree to the point that the soul is guided to a god by amanava purusha. This question is still valid and still unanswered. I request you to read this reference first and then let me know its meaning, so that, we will move forward from that point onwards.
Swami Ramswarup: Answer has been already given above and in previous discussion also that God is Almighty and needs no assistant that after leaving the body any amanav soul would teach the other soul to go to God. Salvation always is in living body and not after death. Now as I have requested above please open the whole issue after 13th June, 04.

Adwaitvad - questions and answers - April 09, 2004

Swamiji's previous reply: The conclusion of Braham sutra 4/3/1 is that he who worships Brahma goes to brahamlok through archi. Archi means Rashmi- kiran.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! There is no clash in these references, and I agree what ever the sruti says in this regard.
Swamiji's previous reply: In Chandogya Upnishad 5/10/1,2, there has been mentioned other paths also from archi to Agni, day, jyoti etc.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! The names you have mentioned as archi, agni, day, jyoti etc do not represent different paths. Instead they are various places on the path of archiradhi marg (also called devyan marg).
Swami Ramswarup: Rigveda mantra 10/88/15 throw light on this matter that (MARTYANAM PITRINNAM) i.e., in the matter of souls, who leaves body at the time of death i.e., martyanam, those who nurses them i.e., their parents--- pitrinnam, (UT) and DEVANAM i.e., those who have got salvation. For these two DWEY SRUTI --- two paths are there:
One Pitiryann and second Devyan. (Tabhyam) from those (EJAT VISHWAH SMITI) i.e., got salvation and the second (PITRAM MATRAM ANTRA CHAYAT) i.e., who does not get salvation that soul takes rebirth. So these Pitriyann and Devyan two paths have been stated in Vedas.

Braham Sutra [4/2/21(517)] is regarding death. It is clear by Vedas that soul leave the body one day and gets next body according to his good or bad deeds. The soul of a Yogi comes out through Sushamna Naadi and makes contact with rays of sun. See if a Yogi leaves the body in night it does not mean that there are no sun's ray. The rays of moon are the rays of sun at the night and until we are alive, the contact with the sun's ray can't be broken. Therefore there is no any question or doubt to leave the body in Uttrayan Shukla paksh to get salvation etc. The salvation or the next pious birth is always based on pious deeds according to Vedas. This is the fundamental law of God and can't be changed. So no question of Uttrayan or Dakshinayan. The contact of the soul at the time of death with sun's ray is to be in space and soul has to go to sun, moon, air, etc., etc., vide 39th chapterof Yajurveda. The Braham sutra quoted above clarifies that the said fundamental law is applicable also for a Yogi. Yogeshwar Krishna clarifies this fact in Geeta shlok 8/23,24, 25 that the people says the importance of Uttrayan and Dakishnnayan but in shlok 8/27 Shri Krishna clarifies that it is based only on self imagination but the Yogi who knows the fundamental of karmas he does not worry about Uttrayan and Dakishnnayan.

Ram Suri: The soul passes through these places. It is like this sir. If I go to Agra from Delhi, the route from Delhi to Agra is called the path. Various stations that come in between the journey are various places only, but not called paths of the journey. Since you have quoted sri Ramanuja's reference previously, let me say what sri Ramanuja had said about these names of the path. He said that the names, like agni, day, etc represent the names of various deities on this path. You said previously that do not believe in the existence of any gods or deities. But sri Ramanuja believed in the existence of gods or deities. I also remember you saying that sri Ramanuja had done a lot of work, which tally with Vedas. When sri Ramanuja believed the existence of various gods or deities based on his understanding of Vedas, then why you do not believe in the existence of various gods or deities as per Veda teachings. On the other hand, both sri Vyas and sri Shankara also said that the names represent various deities on this path.
Swami Ramswarup: I have quoted chapter 39th of Yajurveda and in its mantra 6 it is mentioned that the soul, after leaving the body wanders first day in Surya ,second in Agni, third Vaayu, fourth Aditya, fifth chandrma, 6 Ritu etc., etc. But these are called padarth (matter and non -alive) please. And not alive deity. In Vedas Devayan marg means the soul has got salvation and pitriyann marg means the soul who has not got salvation and requires rebirth. And salvation is always while living in body. This is also quoted in Chhandogya Upnishad 5/10/7.

Swamiji's reply: And as regards Manav and amanav, the sadhak (manav) himself becomes a manav and teaches the aspirants and this philosophy is said " Devyanmarg"
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! The term 'amanav' is found in Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 (please see the term 'tat purusho amanava'). You have used two termsin your answer, namely, 'manav and amanav'. The usage of both these terms should be done differently. Here both cannot be used to denote one. The reason is that amanav (a non-human person) comes into our discussion for the sake of leading the soul that has followed the path of devayani or archiradhi marg (Both these names indicate the same path, please. I believe that you know it). This amanav purush leads the soul to aparticular god (who is not supreme, and going of this soul to this god itself is not equal to getting salvation. Salvation for this soul comes in much later stages). It means that the question of amanav purush leading the soul of the sadhaka will only come after the death of physical body. Right? Then, where is the question of living of this sadhaka? He is already dead, and his soul has followed devayani path, and after passing different places, amanav purush comes to the soul and leads this soul to a particular god. Right? This soul cannot take any more births to become a manav and to teach the aspirants about philosophy. Why this soul cannot take any more births in future? Because, the sadhaka when living on earth had done good spiritual sadhana and longed or aimed for salvation. When the soul of this sadhaka follows devayani path, it means that the soul is qualified(due to lot of sadhana) to get salvation. If this is the case, how can this soul take birth and teaches to the aspirants about philosophy? This is not possible. And you have said that this philosophy to be devyanmarg. Devyan marg is a path, where a qualified soul passes through different places for the sake of salvation, as described in sruti, which I had already quoted couple of references previously (Chandogya, Bri. Uapnishads etc.), and reaches to a god by the help of a amanav purush. Therefore, your above explanation does not tally with Upanishads, and I do not believe that Vedas would contradict the Upanishad teachings.
Swami Ramswarup: The sun, for six months remain in Uttrayann and for six months in Dakishnnayan, so it does not mean that the people who have done thousands of sins and are dead in Uttrayann will get salvation, and the Yogi leaves body in Dakishnnayan will get rebirth. The God is Almighty and the result of karmas is always in His power only. So while living a Yogi can teach the path of salvation to others as mentioned also in Samkhya sutra 3/78," JEEVANMUKTASCH " i.e., the Yogi who isalive because of living in the body is called alive and because he has got salvation so is called "Mukta". In the next sutra 3/79 Kapil Muni says that because the Yogi is alive and has experienced the realization of God that is why he only delivers the authenticpreach and no others can do like this. So the Amanav if gets salvation after death then who will teach the real salvation path to the aspirants.

Swamiji's reply: Archi means a stage of the soul like a pure ray." Aha" (day) means the stage like a pure, bright day and so on. So these are the stages of souls and death on a proper day etc.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Various names like aha, jyoti, brightness etc etc., are the names of various deities associated with archiradhi marg. Please also vide my above answer where sri Shankara, sri Vyas and sri Ramanuja had expressed this opinion. Therefore, they do not represent the death of a person on a proper day etc. Perhaps you may also be thinking about uttarayan and dakshinayana margs.
Swamiji's reply: Geeta shlok 8/27 is based on imagination only,
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Your opinion is not correct please. In this sloka, Lord Krishna says that knowing these two paths, a devotee is never bewildered (not trapped in to moha). These two paths, described in sloka 8/26 of Gita, are not two types of salvation paths. I hope you know this. Ans. Devyan is only salvation path and not dakishnayann, please. In 8/26, Lord Krishna says that there are two types of departing from this world. These two types of departing of souls after death is not equal to two types of path of salvation. One path of departure is associated with light and the other path of departure is associated with dark.
Swami Ramswarup: Association with light means salvation and with dark means rebirth because of NISHKAAM AMD SAKAAM KARMAS etc. You can say gyan marg and karam marg.

Ram Suri: What is light path departure? Please read 8/24 sloka of Gita This is called archiradhi marg or devay marg (also called krama mukti marg).
Swami Ramswarup: As I have already explained above this is salvation and a Yogi then need not to repeat jap, tap, karma etc.

Ram Suri: Souls, which follow this path, will never take birth. Then what is dark path departure? Please read 8/25 sloka of Gita. Souls, which follow this path, will eventually take birth in this samsar. Sir! How can you say so simply that Gita 8/27 is based on imagination? Please contemplate over it.
Swami Ramswarup: The souls which follow Devyan marg get salvation and as regards rebirth, I have quoted already the Rigveda mantra 1/24/1,2. Shri Krishna Maharaj is giving knowledge in 8/23,24 &25 about Uttrayann and Dakishnayann and concludes in shlok 8/26 saying JAGATAH SHUKLA-- KRISHNE i.e., the shukla and Krishnn paksh are the saying of Jagat. That it is being said in the jagat-- world--- public i.e., not in Vedas or by Rishis Munis. So in next shlok 8/27 Yogeshwar Shri Krishna Maharaj says ETE SRITI JANAN i.e., the Yogi who knows about these two paths and it's truth that these paths makes no difference in the matter of salvation KAH CHANA YOGI NA MUHYATI i.e., no any Yogi has any attachment or any doubt about the said two paths and salvation. So O Arjuna! SARVESHU KALESHU i.e., in all times (whether uttaryann or Dakishnayann or Devyan or Pitriyan) you YOG YUKTAH BHAVA i.e., always remain yourself a Yogi. I.e., if one has attained the salvation and has become Yogi so hissalvation is meant for all the time without effecting Uttrayann or Dakshinayann. So from using the word Jagat Shri Krishna has himself said imagination that it is a world's saying only and a Yogi is not attached with the world's saying. Now you kindly send your views. Because I can't deny Bhagwat Geeta at any moment.

Swamiji's reply: otherwise the salvation is attained while alive.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Let us be serious about our spiritual discussion. Salvation is meant for soul, not to a physical body. A sadhaka utilizes the physical body etc to perform intense sadhana. When this sadhaka experiences the divine, then he is called a jeevan mukta technically. This term is only used figuratively to show the difference of this jeevan mukta with rest of the humans, who are bonded in samsar. Jeevan mukti is not an absolute state of salvation. Absolute salvation is only meant for soul. It means that after the death of this jeevan mukta, his soul will get the salvation in absolute sense.
Swami Ramswarup: Whatever you are saying, this I have said before that in salvation the physical body is not required but a jeevan mukta needs this body till such time he leaves it and remains alive. This fact is also said by Kapil Muni in Samkhya shastra sutra 3/82--- CHAKRBHRAMANNVAD DHRITSHARIRAH i.e, as a potter uses his power on the stick to rotate potter's wheel and thus the wheel itself rotates till the time the strength used by the potter comes to an end. Similarly after getting salvation the Yogi remains alive in the body till such time his breathing time given by the God is finished.

Swamiji's reply: Secondly, there are no two types of salvation because salvation (moksh) means lack of body and sorrows etc.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! Your opinion is not correct again. Please understand that I am not saying it due to anger or hatred for you or anyone. But a truth is a truth, and it is always bitter to hear it initially. In 8/26, Lord Krishna describes two types of departures from this world. In simple language it is like this. One is going and never comes back, and the other one is going and coming back. Going and never comes back is called salvation. This is of two types, as per sruti please. Sir! Whether you believein these two types of salvation paths or not is not important for me. My only intension is to tell what ever is mentioned in Upanishad. Please see Varaho Upanishad, 4.5 about two types of salvations. Lord Ram also expressed similar views in Muktiko Upanishad. Onetype of salvation is called sadhyo mukti (simply called Immediate salvation). This type of salvation is meant for jeevan muktas, who experience divine while living. The second type of salvation is called krama mukti path (also called archiradhi marg or devayan marg or light marg or solar path or gradual salvation path). Sir! How can you say that no two paths of salvation exist when sruti says? Please contemplate over it.
Swami Ramswarup: My dear, now you have created a loving atmosphere so you must be assured that there is nothing that in our heart and you must discuss and continue this pious matter freely. As I have told above with the references that I never denied Devyan and Dakishnayann marg but meaning thereof is salvation and non-salvation respectively. But as you previously told about subtle body, so based on that there are no two types of salvation please.

Swamiji's reply: Yogeshwar while in body (alive) is also in salvation but will feel heat, cold etc., through body but soul has got Samadhi,
Ram Suri present reply: What ever you have said above is applicable to a jeevan mukta. I agree to it. But this state of salvation is not correct in absolute sense. See, even a jeevan mukta has karma to face it. In that situation, how can anyone could say the stateof salvation of a jeevan mukta be in absolute sense. It does not mean that salvation is given in bits and pieces. Please understand that absolute salvation is applicable to soul only. If you do not believe in these words, it does not matter to me. Because theseare not my self-made words, but sruti says it. I will wait for your reply on this.
Swami Ramswarup: I have clarified above this point saying Samkhya sutras 3/78to 82 , please. Now please send your comments.

Swamiji's reply: but after death he will not feel anything else due to lack of body because from body, the sorrows, seasons, happiness, sadness etc., are felt. If it is not then, half salvation with subtle body etc., is not mentioned in Shatpath Brahmin kand 14, already stated or in any Ved mantra.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! There is no mention of half salvation in scriptures. I have never said that. What I am saying is that absolute salvation is only meant for soul. A jeevan mukta state is not an absolute state of salvation. A jeevan mukta also faces the karma. Once this concept becomes clear, then there won't be any confusion about absolute salvation, which is only meant for soul.
Swami Ramswarup: Please see above samkhya sutra and send your comments now.

Ram Suri: Can you please reply whether you agree that the soul is guided to a god by a amanava purush as per Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 reference? If you agree up to point, then we can proceed further slowly.
Swami Ramswarup: God is Almighty, please. Therefore He needs no any assistant that after leaving the body anybody will teach the aspirants. In Shevtashwaropnishad 6/8 it is said --- SWABHAVIKI GYANAM BALAM KRIYA CH i.e., gyan, bal, and karam of Almighty God are swabhavik (naturally) i.e., needs no assistance.

Adwaitvad - questions and answers - April 04, 2004

Ram Suri previous reply: For example, Lord Krishna (11/54) says that after exclusive devotion to divine, one can enter in him (pravestum), meaning that merging of soul in divine. Can you please reply to me sir?
Swami Ramswarup: In this shloka, it is said that Shri Krishna can be seen, known and can be attained by continuous worship with entire devotion. As regard," PRAVESHTUM " Yajurveda mantra 40/6 says that God is within all and all creation is in God. So question of entering the soul into God does not arise. The creation tells the fact that God is within all and all creation is within God.

Ram Suri present reply: Sir! What is the meaning of the word 'attained' in your answer? Lord Krishna also says in Gita 9/4 that every thing is present in him. We agree to it. Right? Then Lord Krishna also says that during the daytime of Lord Brahma (Here, we are not debating who this Lord Brahma is? To get answer for this question, please see my following answersalso), creation is done from prakruti, and during his nighttime, whole universe is dissolved in prakruti (please vide Gita 8/18,19 slokas). Now as per 9/4, every thing is already present in divine. Right? If it so, then how come creation and dissolution are taking place inside divine, when divine does not have any particular form? It does not make any meaning? Right? Therefore, the Gita sloka 9/4 or Yajurveda mantra 40/6 when they say that every thing is in divine, theyshould be understood that divine is present everywhere equally, and that there is no place that does not have divine presence. More over, as per your understanding both divine and souls are different and remain different forever absolutely, and even the liberated souls cannot merge in divine. Right? If this being your case, then, how come the above Yujurveda mantra and Gita sloka say that every thing is present in divine, which means they are already in merged state.Is it not some thing different from your opinion? Both Yajurveda mantra and Gita sloka 9/4 say that every thing is present in divine, but on the other hand you say that divine and souls are different permanent and cannot merge in each other. It means that your understanding is clashing with the above Yajurveda mantra also.
Swami Ramswarup: It is all-okay and I appreciate your views please. Please accept my namaste. This spiritual discussion gives peace to so many concerned aspirants. Now I start mentioning my views. In discussions it is not necessary that one should acccept the views but it is sure that discussion and views must be free of tension etc., and love must be always in every one's hearts for all. Secondly, your answers have never hurt me, it is a truth. I have been wondering in our India and abroad and have tried to promote international brotherhood and for this achievement one has to listen and bear all opposites' views happily despite of the fact that the views are hurting nature or not. On Geeta shlok 11/54 my views are as under---
There are three facts to reach the God.
1. Knowledge (Gyan) i.e., to know about alive-non-alive, truth-untruth, Braham-illusion etc., by real sadhna.
2. To see (darshan) ----- After knowing, an aspirant can see the motto only.
3. To enter (pravesh) ---- After seeing the truth, the aspirant leaves behind the all untrue paths- untruth and adopt truth only I.e., he enters in truth.

Enter means " to follow " and not to enter the room etc. If a soul will enter the God, then it means, the God is standing in one space where the soul is not and the soul is standing in another place but Tateriopnishad says," TAT SRISHTVA TADEVA NU PRAVISHAT " I.E., God created the universe from prakriti and incorporated Himself in it. So God is separate and universe is separate. In this shlok, a word," TATVEN " is also mentioned which means to know the factual position- truth. In Valmiki Ramayan, Bal kand sarg one it is mentioned about Shri Ram that he was SARV SHASTRATH TATVAJYAHAN and VED VEDANG TATVAJYAHA i.e., knower of all shastras by truth and knower of all Vedas by truth. TATVA means factual position. So in this shlok of Bhagwat Geeta, the meaning of TATVEN PRAVESHTU is " to enter by knowing factual truth ". So the meaning of TATVEN PRAVESHTU is not that the soul has merged into God and has become God. The meaning of " atained ", you asked, is to achieve, please.Actually in advaitvad the merger philosophy is based on, only knowledge (Gyan) and not karma. So according to advaitvad, the meaning of " TATVEN PRAVESHTUM " is merger of soul into God. Whereas Vedas tell to adopt Gyan (knowledge in Rigveda), karma ( deeds vide Yajurveda) and Upsana (worship vide Saamveda ). So according to the said philosophy of Vedas, the meaning of next shlok i.e.," MATKARMAKRIT, MATPARMAHA " etc., says that the soul with his body should perform duties. Suppose, vide shlok 11/54, the soul is merged then the meaning of the next shlok is of no use. Therefore in my opinion, the meaning of "TATVEN PRAVESHTUM " is to enter into knowledge by doing pious deeds. This point may please be discussed further.

Bhagwat Geeta shlok 9/4 says that God is formless and He is within all being "omnipresent". All five matters and souls are situated within God but God does not i.e., after creating the world, the God incorporated Himself in it and thus given strength to earth, sun, moon and whole universe to be stable or to live upon etc. So this is the meaning of " MATASTHANISARVABHUTANI ". On the other hand, God being Almighty needs no any help for His stability. So this is the meaning of "AHAM TESHU NA AVASTHITAHA" Almighty God is formless but the wprld is not formless. The world and bodies have forms. Even Shatpath Brahmin Granth says, "YASYA ATMA SHARIRAM " i.e., the soul is the residence of Almighty God (Anandmaya kosh). So naturally, God is smallest (suksham) than world and souls and therefore has incorporated Himself within universe and souls, whereas universe and souls can not, just like the electric flow in electric wire. Wire is sthool and electricity is most suksham than the wire.

Bhagwta Geeta shlok 9/4 is also not saying that everything is already present in divine. Above quoted Tateriopnishad also clarifies that God incorporated Himself in universe after creating the universe from prakriti and this is very well clear in mandal 10, sukta 129-130 of Rigveda that after pralaya and at the beginning of creation, three tatvas were present having different qualities, i.e., God, Prakriti and souls; all immortal and eternal. So Yajurveda mantra 40/6 and Geeta shlok 9/4 never say that at the time of creation everything is already present in Divine (God). Actually after creation the Divine (God) incorporates Himself in the universe. You have told that creation is done from prakriti and is dissolved in prakriti and this fact is mentioned in all Vedas and Samkhya sutra 1/26 onwards that God creates universe from prakriti and prakriti made universe, at the time of destruction, pralaya, the universe is dissloved or takes the shape again as prakriti. It isnever said in any veda that prakriti has been merged in to God, please. Now please send your views.

The meaning of Yajurveda mantra 40/6 comes that the learned, who after studying Vedas and practising Ashtang yoga philosophy sees all non-alive and alive universe within God. And knows that God is everywhere, within whole universe, then he gets nomisunderstanding about prakriti made universe, alive souls and Almighty God. So here main thing is word "ANUPASHYATI". Anu means after studying Vedas and practising ashtang yoga i.e., he who sees is soul. The another is prakriti made non-alive universe, seen bu soul and third is Almighty God. And in this Yajurveda mantra, there is no mention that the soul ora person is God. Now, please send your views.

Swami Ramswarup: In this connection, Ramanujam says on this shloka that he who does continuos worship of mind, with whole heart/entire devotion, he attains me.

Ram Suri present reply: Sir! How come you quote sri Ramanujam's references in support of your views here when you do not believe in his Vishitadvaita philosophy? More over, as you may be aware that he believed Lord Vistnu as supreme divine (divine in saguna form) while you believe divine in nirgun form. As per your understanding divine does not have anysankalp or vikalp, and thus should always be a nirgun form. Right? When this is the case, how come you quote hisreferences? But I have no objection for your sri Ramanuja reference here. For Gita 11/54 sloka, sri Ramanuja said that by whole-hearted devotion, the sadhaka knows truly Lord Krishna (or divine), sees him (or experiences divine) and enters into Lord Krishna (or divine). Can you please tell me who is entering and where is entering into if everything is alreadypresent in divine as per your understanding of Yujurveda mantra, and if both divine and soul cannot merge in each other as per your understanding of scriptures?
Swami Ramswarup: As regards Shri Ramanujam or any other dignity, who have done a lot and made their conclusion tallying with the Vedas, they are respectfully honoured, please. So in the sentence used by Shri Ramanujam quoted before, the meaning of "me" therein is "formless God", please. "Nirguna" word is used, is not so appropriate as "Nirakaar". However, the shape of the world, in which God is present, may be considered the form of God and God has unlimited qualities like omnipresent, Almighty, creator, gives result of karmas, alive, pure, formless etc., etc. So God can be considered on this basis " Saguna " but will always remain Nirakaar.

Swami Ramswarup: In this connection, please refer Shatpath Brahmin Granth of Yaskacharya, quoted above, wherein it is stated the deepest and unseen meaning by Yaskacharya that in salvation, the soul has sankalp power and uses ear, nose, body etc., accordingly for merriment. Therefore without ear, nose, mind, budhhi etc., soul can do nothing which is fundamental of Vedas. And opened by ancient and present Rishis, as issaid in Rigveda mantra 1/1/2 and this secret can't be known by arrogants please. Therefore please study Rishi-made holy books.

Ram Suri present reply: I agreed earlier also that soul has subtle body only up to certain point. In this regard, whatever Shatpath Brahmin Granth says is also true, but it is true only up to a certain point. Basically, your understanding, based on the above Granth, is only applicable to those souls, which follow devayani marg or archiradhi marg (which is also described by Lord Krishna in Gita. Please vide 8/24 sloka in Gita, also please see Brahma Sutras from IV.3.1 onwards for this topic; also please see Chandogya Upanishad 4.15.5 and 5.10.1 about this path). The soul will pass through Agni, jyoti, day,etc deities (I am skipping out many details here) and finally reaches a god by the help of a non-human person (Who is this non-human person? Please see Brihadaranyaka Upanishad [Bri. Upanishad] 6.2.15, and also see 'tatpurusho maanasa aitya'in this sloka). We may call this person, who guides the soul to this God, as amanava purusha as per Chandogya Upanishad 5.10.2 (please see the term 'tat purusho amanava' .). It is commonly believed that this god, to whom the soul was brought, is Lord Brahma. Therefore, as per the above Bri. Upanishad reference, the soul finally reaches a god with the help of amanava purusha. I am deliberately stopped my answer to writer further in order to know your understanding on this topic. Therefore, you are most welcome to send your comments up to this point only. Please state clearly if you agree to my above points, which are supported with Upanishads, Brahma Sutras and Gita. We will proceed further slowly when our current discussion gets clearunderstanding. NamaskarRam Suri
Swami Ramswarup: As regards the views of Shri Ramanujam ji, he is using word "Him" which means Almighty God. Almighty God as said in Yajurveda mantra, 40/6,7, is resalised by a Yogi. This is applicable to Yogeshwar Shri Krishna, Vyas Muni, Atri Rishi and several Rishis-Munis. So the Almighty God manifested/appeared within the body of Yogeshwar Shri Krishna and at that time Shri Krishna was equivalent to God. So the words mentioned in the Geeta like "Matkarmakrit, Mat parmaha, Mad bhaktaha, Mam sharnam " etc.,etc. are as said in yajurveda mantra 31/11 i.e., " BRAHMANO MUKHAM AASEET " i.e., in this world, the mouth of a Yogeshwar is like a mouth of God from where the preach of Vedas, comes out (but God has no mouth). Now, please send your views and as regards who is "entering" and where is entering, I have clarified above by saying " incorporated Himself " etc., please.

As regards Shatpath Brahmin Granth, Shukla paksh means to met the death while doing pious deeds according to Vedas and Krishna paksh means the death while doing sins etc.

The conclusion of Braham sutra 4/3/1 is that he who worships Brahma goes to brahamlok through archi. Archi means Rashmi- kiran. In Chandogya Upnishad 5/10/1,2, there has been mentioned other paths also from archi to Agni, day, jyoti etc. And asregards Manav and amanav, the sadhak (manav) himself becomes a manav and teaches the aspirants and this philosophy is said " Devyanmarg ".Archi means a stage of the soul like a pure ray." Aha" (day) means the stage likea pure, bright day and so on. So these are the stages of souls and death on a proper day etc. Geeta shlok 8/27 is based on imagination only, otherwise the salvation is attained while alive. Secondly, there are no two types of salvation because salvation (moksh) means lack of body and sorrows etc. Yogeshwar whlie in body ( alive) is also in salvation but will feel heat, cold etc., through body but soulhas got Samadhi, but after death he will not feel anything else due to lack of body because from body, the sorrows, seasons, happiness, sadness etc., are felt. If it is not then, half salvation with subtle body etc., is not mentioned in Shatpath Brahmin kand 14, already stated or in any Ved mantra.

Adwaitvad - questions and answers - March 29, 2004

Ram Suri: Namaskar. I have given answers for your email reply. Ihave no angry or anything. If my answers hurt you,please forgive me.
Swami Ramswarup: Namaskar. I am pleased to listen your views and it is okay. Because this is a matter of faith i.e., spiritualism and nobody must try to shoulder his views to anybody else. But happily, pleasantly and faithfully everybody must free to speak his views. Ours is a secular country and we respect all religions heartily. In the beginning when you sent your questions, first I thought not to give answer. But the way of your questioning was soft like a learned saint, then only I managed myself to brief my views based on four Vedas, but not with the sense that you must accept. However I sure wanted to give the preach of four Vedas only, but in between you started rude and discourteous language, so I requested you to please stop the same because it is a religious matter whose base is love only. Now it's okay.

Swamiji's previous reply: "Yog shastra says that Raj, tam and satv gunas of Prakriti do not make effect on Jeevan mukta, but he uses mouth, ear etc., and food etc., made of Prakriti as used by all ancient Rishis and prakriti remains always and can't be told nothing as mentioned in Rigveda mandal 10 sukta 129 and Samkhya shastra sutra 1/26".

Ram Suri present reply: Sir! I agree that trigunas cannot tempt a jeevan mukta. He also eats food and does other work. But all his senses are under his control, and thus I have said that trigunas, which are prakrutic, cannot do anything to him, and thus for him they are not existing. Therefore, for him there is no tretvad (divine, soul and prakruti= tretvad. But for him prakruti=zero, and hence no three but only two, and thus no tretvad for jeevan mukta).
Swami Ramswarup: For the jeevan mukta still prakriti is there in sankalp and cannot be zero please. But prakriti's gunas i.e., materialistic articles and raj, tam, and satv gunas will never make any effect on jeevan mukta. Zero means there is no prakriti. But prakriti made whole world is still but will not effect on jeevan mukta. But will effect others. A jeevan mukta even after leaving this body will use mouth, ears etc., as I already told giving reference of Shatpath Brahmin Granth kand 14 wherein it is mentioned by Yask Muni that a jeevan mukta after leaving the body will not have panch bhautik sharir And indriyan but has his satya (true )sankalp (desire etc) and natural qualities by which when the soul wants to listen then by his natural quality and desire soul gets ears and so on. So these organs are considered suksham sharir which can be defined that the jeevan mukta at that time has body based on sankalp and desire i.e., when jeevan mukta and any body else is alive having panch bhautik body and jeevatma lives in the body, at that time jeevatama (whether jeevan mukta or others i.e., both) uses the organs, perceptions and body for carrying out deeds. Similarly jeevan mukta only based on his sankalp and own power uses the body after leaving the panch bhautik body too. So it is not possible based on the principles of Vedas that during salvation the soul will be merged in to God. Maindiscussion is on this issue only and we must carefully discuss on this matter. When I say,"already explained above" it means I have already told with reference to Vedanta sutras also that merger is not possible. So if you will please again tell me that the soul will be merged giving any references then my reply will be ,"I have already explained above." Because with giving the references of Vedas, shashtras I have already explained that merger is not possible. But if it suits you, you may please worship accordingly and I will be loving you also. Because you have adopted a Vedanta mat which I cannot object and I have adopted a Vedic mat which you must not please object. But still our discussion must be on to know about each mat.

Ram Suri's previous reply: "In other words, a jeevan mukta sees divine everywhere with his gyan eye, where as ignorant people tries to see divine through theirmortal eyes".
Swamiji's previous reply: "How ignorant will try to see God by mortal eyes when it is not possible except to see statue etc. Based on Atharvaveda mantra 10/8/14, it is too said that God is realised by divine eyes and not by any indri like eyes made of prakriti. So based on this mantra, Shri Krishna too says that O Arjun you cannot see me with your mortal eyes. Vedas are eternal and Geeta has been written about 5,300 years back. So the knowledge in Geeta is based on four Vedas.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! When I said that an ignorant person tries to see divine by mortal eyes, it should be understood that he is only worshipping with some expectation from divine. On the other hand, a jeevan mukta does not expect anything from divine.
Swami Ramswarup: My Vedic views are these that jeevan mukta or not jeevan mukta both have always expectations from God. That is why the method of prayers to get knowledge, assets, pleasure etc., is there in the Vedas and in every religion. As I have explained above now also the jeevan mukta enjoys the merriment by the blessing of God. As regards materialistic eyes, we can't forget the principles of Vedas, shastras, etc., that from these materialistic eyes if someone has some expectation from God i.e., all in vain. So if we stop from beginning as told in Yajurveda mantra 40/4 , these materialistic eyes then I think it will be a good path. Because this mantra says," ENAT DEVAH NA APNUVAN" i.e., eye, ear etc., indriyan are not capable to reach or achieve the God. But if somebody tries from indriyan so he can try.

Ram Suri: Instead of understanding this, you started looking at the literal meaning in my sentences. This is called understanding of literal meaning of sentences. Apart from this, a very subtle truth is associated scriptural statements. When you confine to literal meaning of the sentences or words in the answers, then you will miss the hidden spiritual meaning. This is what is happening in your case all the time sir.
Swami Ramswarup: So please you can carry on from eyes etc., also. But whatever I know even literal meaning as tell about me, I am satisfied with my literal meaning, even if I hide spiritual meaning. I do not negate your views passed on me please.

Swamiji's previous answer: "No please being against the Vedas. What is gyan eye when jeevan mukt has left his body here and fails to see divine every where"
Ram Suri previous answer: "Sir, the problem with you is that you do not understand the meaning and the context. Here, a jeevan mukta is also a human being. But because, he has done intense spiritual sadhana, he has experienced the divine within himself. With the divine experience, his perception of looking at things changes, and he experiences divine presence everywhere. On the contrary, even though he is a jeevan mukta, but because, he has a physical body, he will also feel hunger etc. But, unlike people like us, his urges are not instinct. So, what happens to his soul after the death of his physical body? It willmerge in divine immediately. This is called Sadyomukti (Immediately salvation). This is where the Brahma Sutra IV.2.15 (Tani pare tatha hyaha) is applied. Please also see, Prasna Upanishad 6.5. The meaning of this is that all 16 parts of witness, having their aim in Him (divine) are solubilised on attaining Him (divine). River and sea analogy is given in this connection in this reference. Now, what is there sir, here, to say that it is against Vedas?"
Swamiji's previous answer: "Already explained above please"
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! You are simply escaping from answering now. You said, "Already explained above please" Let us see what you had explained above. The following is your answer, which was referred to see:
Swami Ramswarup: "Yog shastra says that Raj, tam and satv gunas of Prakriti do not make effect on Jeevan mukta, but he uses mouth, ear etc., and food etc., made of Prakriti as used by all ancient Rishis and prakriti remains always and can't be told nothing as mentioned in Rigveda mandal 10 sukta 129 and Samkhya shastra sutra 1/26".

Ram Suri: In my previous answer, when I said 'gyan eye' you have said that 'What is gyan eye when jeevan mukt has left his body here and fails to see divine every where'. Perhaps you are under impression that a gyan eye is a material object. But it is not a material thing to leave it behind on earth upon death of physical body. On the other hand, this is that gyan eye, which is also referred by Lord Krishna in Gita 13/35, where he says that those who sees the difference between physical body and the knower of this body with gyan chaksusa (eye of knowledge) will attain salvation. Now, please do not say that the exact word 'salvation' is not found in this sloka. Please understand the context. Instead of understanding my answer in this way, you simply said, 'Already explained above please'. This is no good sir.
Swami Ramswarup: I have several times explained that merger is not possible of a jeevan mukta because he has also to come again in birth vide Rigveda mantra 1/24/1,2 and these mantras I have explained before. So your repetition is not understood to me please. Please study these mantras carefully if possible. Moksh and again birth is eternal as said in these Rigveda mantras. So merger is not possible. Gyan eye means to know about truth, untruth, jad-chetan, good-bad, so for this purpose eyes are not required, so the gyan eye means the soul who has attained whole knowledge by studying or tapsya through mann and pure budhhi. And in salvation i.e., after leaving the body the jeevan mukta again uses mind, etc., to get merriment of salvation through eye, nose etc. So this the gyan eye. You can say the sankalp power of jeevan mukta makes enable the jeevanmukta to enjoy the time of merriment of salvation. If still not understood then you may again pass any comments on me and I will try again please. I do not consider gyan eye a materialistic instrument because it is not used by jeevan mukta during salvation. Gyanitself is chakshu please.

Swamiji;s previous reply: "Physical body is not prakriti but made of prakriti's three gunas (please see Samkhya shastra sutra 1/26)"
Ram Suri present reply: There are three things. One is divine, second is soul and the third one is prakruti. Right? Divine is not prakruti. Sir! Do you agree on this?
Swami Ramswarup: I have several times told this fact giving reference even of Rigveda mandal 10 that this is the tretvad which you are telling here that God, souls, and prakriti are eternal. And from prakriti's three gunas God creates universe etc., etc. So this is all repetition please. That is why I have to tell," I have already explained above."

Ram Suri: Then, souls are also not prakruti. Right? Live physical body has two things. One is soul and the other is a physical body associated with senses.
Swami Ramswarup: In other words the body is made of prakriti's three gunas. The body is non-alive because prakriti's three gunas are non-alive. The body has fiveperceptions, five senses, mann, budhhi, ahankar etc., as per Rigveda mandal 10 and Geeta 13/5 also. Soul is however, alive and live in the body.

Ram Suri: When the soul is not prakruti, then it means that the physical body is called prakruti, (associated with senses).
Swami Ramswarup: Prakriti's definition is mentioned in Rigveda mandal 10 and Samkhya sutra 1/26 that when three gunas are "SAMYA" that is not working then this stage is called prakriti. When three gunas are in action and have created universe then this stage is not called prakriti but is called prakriti's gunas made universe. This I had already explained before and this is only repetition please. So sun is the result of prakriti and Prakriti is its cause. The parents are cause of a daughter or a son and daughter or son are result. So the daughter or son are not parents.

Ram Suri: On the other hand, you say that physical bodies are made from prakruti, and that they are not called prakruti anymore. It means, as per your understanding, once the physical bodies are created or made, then they are no more called prakruti. Right? You know that the live physical body is not soul, and similarly, a live physical body is also not called divine. Right? If the physical body is neither a soul nor a divine, then what is it remaining now? Only prakruti is remaining.
Swami Ramswarup: I have explained above please that body is prakriti made. There are two things in Vedas and shastras—Karann (cause) and Karya (result). Prakriti is the cause of universe, i.e., from prakriti's three gunas the universe is created and during destruction this creation is merged in prakriti. Then prakriti remains prakriti(cause) and karya (result) is destroyed during final destruction (Pralaya). This is repetition please. Please don't mind if it will be repeated then I will have to write, "already explained above."

Ram Suri: It means that physical bodies are called prakruti, nevertheless, prakruti is in a modified form now. Can we say that a pot, once made from mud, is no more called a mud? The mud in the pot has taken a different form or shape, but mud is present in the pot also. Therefore, the conclusion is that different forms of bodies are representation of prakruti in different shapes, meaning that prakruti is changeable. Let ussee one more example. Suppose we have an ice cube and water. Ice is made from water. But because, ice has a particular shape, can we say that it is not made from water. No. Ice is made of water. Once ice melts, then it becomes water and mixes in water. Here we take ice as different types of physical bodies, and water as prakruti. Ice is made of water only. Similarly, all physical bodies are made from prakruti.
Swami Ramswarup: Pot is made of mud but will not function as mud. We put foods in a pot made of mud but will not put food in mud. So prakriti 's definition is another as told above. And prakriti's gunas made universe, definition is another one. Similarly the ice is used for another purpose and water is used for another purpose. But see pot, mud ,water and ice are made of prakriti's gunas.

Ram Suri: Once ice is made from water, can anyone say that there is no water in ice? No. Ice is made from water, and it is in a different form now. When ice melts, then the water can be seen with naked eyes and this water merges in another drop of water. Similarly, when the physical are created from prakruti, it means that prakruti is in a different form now. Hence, when the physical bodies die, they all merge in prakruti, likeice after melting merges in water. If physical bodies are not prakruti, it means that ice is not water. If is so, then how come, ice after melting merges in water and how come physical bodies merge in prakruti after death? If physical bodies and prakruti aredifferent, then how can the physical bodies merge in prakruti?
Swami Ramswarup: As already explained above the definition of prakriti is separate and definition of universe is separate, so universe can't be claimed prakriti, butprakriti made. Ice is made of water but nobody says it water please. Everybody will say it is made of water.

Ram Suri: How can water mix with oil? Water can mix in water, but not in oil. Right? Similarly, physical bodies merge in prakruti due to their very prakrutic nature. Therefore, prakruti is changeable. Similarly, once creation is done, prakruti cannot say, "hey! Job of creation is done, and so I am separate from the creation, and let me take rest" like that. When the creation is done, prakruti is also spread in the universe in different forms. Since prakruti is non-alive, it starts functioning under the guidance of divine, like iron pieces move in the presence of a magnet. Therefore, the conclusion is that physicalbodies are also prakrutic in nature, Please see Gita 13/7, where Lord Krishna says that avyaktam etc have vikaras as it is considered to be the field of activities (ksetram).
Swami Ramswarup: In Geeta shlok 13/5 and not 13/7, AVYAKTAM word is meant for prakriti and mahabhoot ahankar, budhhi, indriyanni etc., are prakriti made. AVYAKTAM means which is unseen and cannot be described and eternal too. So this prakriti. And which are seen and can be described are not prakriti. So body is seen and can be described and is thus not prakriti but prakriti made.

Ram Suri: This avyaktam is nothing but the prakruti. Anything, which has vikaras, is changeable. When prakruti has vikaras, it means that it is also changeable. In alive physical body, senses etc are called prakruti. A person does sadhana because he wants to bring some change in his attitudes etc. This change is not brought in the soul or in the physical body, but brought in senses etc by controlling mind etc due to practice of astanga yoga etc. See, before sadhana, the temperaments are bad, and by sadhana, these temperaments are eliminated and the senses are well under control. Now please tell me if there is any change in the sadhaka before and after lot of sadhana. Yes there is change. The person remains the same, and the soul also remains the same. Then where did these changes take place? The changes took place in senses etc. You agree that senses etc are not divine, but they are prakrutic. It means that here this change occurred in prakruti. Right? This means that prakruti is changeable. Right?
Swami Ramswarup: Prakriti made whole universe is changeable. If senses are changeable it is not understood. Senses, organs, mind and budhhi are prakriti made, I have already told so many times. These are non-alive, its changes carry the body to death and it makes no difference to alive soul. As I already explained before by Rigveda mantra that this body has been blessed by God to soul to do pious deeds to get salvation otherwise to take several births in several yonis, according to karmas. So this body is used by alive soul to do pious deeds and otherwise. As mentioned in Vedas that the soul has a quality of attachment/ desire. This is also mentioned in Bhagwat Geeta 13/6 (ICHHA). So mostly soul is attached with materialistic articles made of prakriti and meets with sorrows etc. when anyone does tapsya etc., this attachment is finished then the jeevan mukta soul does not attach with materialistic articles or illusion. So change has come in alive soul by virtue of attachment, desire etc., but materialistic change has no meaning please.

Ram Suri previous reply: because, in the absence of jeevatma, this will disintegrate and merges into prakruti. We all know, soul is everlasting, and no changes occur to it. Now come back to your statement that prakruti is unchangeable. The physical body of a new-born baby is different from this body at adulthood. In other words, every thing in time space domain will change with time. How this happens withoutchanges in prakruti?
Ram Suri previous answer: The changes in prakruti take place under the influence of divine. Therefore, your understanding that prakruti is unchangeable is nottrue. Yes prakruti is everlasting as said by Lord Krishna in Gita.
Swamiji's previous answer: Divine (God) is alive and prakriti is non-alive and can't be compared being separate from each other.
Ram Suri present reply: You say that prakruti is non-alive. How come a non-alive thing be changeless forever? Divine is only changeless forever. Right? Divine uses non-alive prakruti for creation. Since creation is ever lasting process, the non-alive prakruti is also present forever, but nevertheless it is inferior to divine, and hence exists in different forms in the universe. No where it is mentioned to worship prakruti to obtain salvation. But everywhere it is mentioned to utilize the prakruti (physical body and senses etc) for divine realization.Right?
Swami Ramswarup: This I have already explained before. The definition of prakriti is that when raj, tam and satv gunas are not functioning (Pralaya) so this stage is called prakriti. Please see Samkhya sutra 1/26 and Rigveda mandal 10. When this stage is prakriti then prakriti is not a man, woman or any statue etc., the said stage is called prakriti. so prakriti is not a substance except a stage when three gunas are not functioning i.e., are not creating universe. I.e. the stage of pralaya, etc. If it is not yet understood then you please name again with so many tittles that I am ignorant am having literal knowledge, I have got problem , I am doing partiality etc., etc., etc., and then I shall again try to shower Vedas' views please. But I am not suppressing you to accept my views.

Swamiji's previous reply: The authentic 10,000 shlokas are in Mahabharta. If Uddhav Geeta is based on these shlokas, please state. Secondly when there was no any Geeta before five thousand years back, then was it not possible to worship God or determine God based on four Vedas only.
Ram Suri present reply: "There was no any Geeta before five thousand years"? It clearly shows how much you are familiar with scriptures. Bhagawat Gita was not there before five thousand years back. But why do say that there are no any other Gitas available by that time? Astavakra Gita etc are available during at time. Sir! It is possible that you do not know about it, and you may also want to say that it is not found in Vedas and hence discard it.
Swami Ramswarup: In Vedas there is no any history please. I have described already about Vedas. I have said the word ,"any other Geeta" with the intention that Geeta like Bhagwat Geeta was not there. So when Bhagwat Geeta was not here in existence and the birth of Yogeshwar Shri Krishna Maharaj was not there, yet there was worship and that was based on Vedas. So why not now? I have read Ashtravakra Geeta but have not been considering the same in my article or writing etc., deeply. Actually you put the question about merger so it is astonished why you carry it towards Ashtravakra Geeta or Adi Shankracharya jee or literal meaning etc., etc. I do not want to stop you from these writings but it will save the time if you can please.

Ram Suri: Any how, what are you trying to say from your above answer? Are you saying that Bhagawat Geeta is inferior to Vedas? Or Are you saying that one should not worship Lord Krishna as the divine, as he is not available before 5,300 years?
Swami Ramswarup: These are your own made views please, deviating from the topic. And so many times you have diverted the attention from the topic please. Okay I accept calmly.

Ram Suri: You said that you believe Bhagawat Gita and have agreed that Gita is based on the knowledge of four Vedas. Right? Then please read 4/6 to 8 slokas andreply me sir.
Swami Ramswarup: According to Vedas this shlok 4/6 states that AJ means who is lack of birth and oldness etc., so AJ=God. Soul is also AJ because soul takes body only and not birth. Prakriti is also AJ because prakriti also does not take birth and never becomes old etc. The same meaning is of AVYAY. BHOOT word here is meant for (ashvarya) glory. So Krishna here says to Arjuna that he is AJAH AVYAYAH and master of all glories etc.

Swamiji's previous reply: Please note that now present Mahabharta Granth has more than one lakh shlokas. In this connection it is said that in the time of king Vikramaditya the shlokas became 20,000, Maharaja Bhoj says 25,000 and more., and Shri Kashinath Rajvade writes," the present Mahbharta is corrupt and enlarged edition of the ancient Mahabharta, this ancient work has been diluted from time to time with all sorts of additions and has grown in proportion on that account".
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! I agree with you on this but who will determine that which slokas are original and which slokas are corrupt? Who will determine which scripture is authentic? Is this corruption done only in Maha Bharat? Or is it also applicable to others like Ramayana, Samkhya shastras, Yoga sutras, and Vedas too? Who has to say yes or no for this corruption? What is their authority? And again, by whom the above corruption started in those scriptures? People who have knowledge in Sanskrit can only corrupt such scriptures. Right? Other ordinary people, who do not know Sanskrit, cannot do this work. Right? People, who think that they know every thing, and who have the knowledge of Sanskrit will only do this corruption, and people who only reads Vedas but unable to grasp the subtle truths of spirituality can only do this corruption and thus bad customs in the society is introduced by them. Right?
Swami Ramswarup: In this connection I have already given the proof of Ved mantras and yoga shastra sutra 1/7 that Vedas are self proof and the philosopher of Vedas and yoga who are alive are the proof. Those who would know the traditional knowledge of Vedas, how can they change the scriptures, so these views of yours are not understood. But the people are being mostly made afraid by some arrogants not to read Sanskrit andVedas to enable arrogants to spread their own views which are oftenly against the traditional knowledge of the Vedas. So please read my answers given before with regards to eight proofs and about Vedas. Here is only repetition. Again I tell you that I am telling the views based on Vedas, shastras if not accepted by you then it is not a matter that I will start objection or I will hate you. No please. My love is for all mankind.

Swamiji's previous answer: With limited understanding I think I understand from Vedas that prakriti, soul and God are ever unchangeable and eternal. And your unlimited understanding do not tally Vedas please. Please carry on till its finalization.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! When you agree sincerely that you had limited understanding of Vedas, then how can you determine that my unlimited understanding does not tally with Vedas? It is not possible. Right?
Swami Ramswarup: Because you have not read Vedas, I think so. Otherwise you could quote even a single Ved mantra. So I have told you a wiser of unlimited knowledge without Vedas. I have been told by you several times that I have a limited knowledge and literal knowledge which I accepted. That is why I have told you that you have unlimited knowledge to declare a person having literal knowledge only.

Swamiji's previous answer: Gold is being gold being same but impure golden ring is mixed with some other metal, but in case of soul nothing can be mixed in the soul. The soul is covered with the illusion but illusion cannot enter in the soul.
Ram Suri present reply: You always miss the central point, but hang on to the unnecessary details in materialistic examples. I never said that soul is impure, but said that it is covered by different layers of kleshas, like kam, krodh, moh, etc. When the soul is covered by these layers, I am calling this soul as a conditioned soul technically for easyunderstanding. I explained my position or stand many times in my previous postings. But never read them by your heart or tried to grasp the meaning. Instead, you are looking for the terms like 'conditioned soul or unconditioned soul' in scriptures.
Swami Ramswarup: When you give the example of impure gold with soul then what have to be told. It will be told that soul can not be mixed with any impurity. Yet if I miss then its okay please. There are so many souls one is a jeevan mukta and other who is covered with illusion, that is all please. So I am not in a position to understand your sense about conditioned and unconditioned souls. Because I have not read in Vedas please and you also agree in your above statement that it is not mentioned in scriptures. Please clarify about conditioned and unconditioned souls.

Swamiji's previous reply: Already explained above please. In Geeta shlok 6/5 there is no mention of controlled/uncontrolled mind.
Ram Suri present reply: You will not find the terms 'controlled or uncontrolled' in this sloka sir. I am giving the essence of the sloka. As usual sir, you missed the central point again.
Swamiji's previous reply: Here Shri krishna clearly uses the word," ATMA ATMANAM UDHRET" i.e., soul (Atma) must elevate himself through self and not degrade himself. The soul himself is his friend as well as his enemy.
Ram Suri present reply: A soul does not have any impurities. Right? You said, " After sadhna, illusion will be over, so the soul with cover or without cover is same and unchangeable" in you above answers. Right? When soul is as luminous as before, then why it should treat itself as a friend or enemy?
Swami Ramswarup: This has been told by Shri Krishna in shlok 6/5 told by you. This is regarding illusion if soul uses mann, budhhi, senses to uncover then friend otherwise enemy.

Ram Suri: After sadhana, all senses are under well control. Before sadhana also, the soul is also luminous, but it is covered by different layers, like kama, krodh etc.,Then by controlling the senses, these layers are removed. Right? Then, when I said that controlled/uncontrolled mind, it should be understood as controlling of senses. I also know that the terms 'controlled or uncontrolled' are not found in the sloka. But the sloka is conveying the meaning that the senses are like friend when they are controlled, whilethey are enemies under uncontrolled situation. Your understanding that 'soul himself is his friend as well as his enemy' is totally wrong. Please think again sir.
Swami Ramswarup: Non-alive matters are always controlled by alive. One (soul) will control his eye not to see bad scene but eye will not control itself being non-alive, etc., etc. Explained above please. Please throw your views now.

Swamiji's previous reply: Soul is separate and mind is separate. The soul has not been made by any body and is alive matter whereas mind has been made of prakriti--- a non-alive matter.
Ram Suri present reply: The soul is not made of any body (matter). I agree on this. But you say alive matter again. One side you are saying that soul is not made of any matter, but on the other hand you are saying that soul is a live matter When soul is notmade by anybody else and can not be made even like God and like prakriti that is why soul is called in Vedas ,"SWAYAM BHU". So your views are not understood to me.Please clarify again. When soul is not made of any type of matter, then where is the question of soul being made of live matter or non-alive matter? Sir! You are contradictingyour own statements. You are not clear what you are saying here.
Swami Ramswarup: Soul is SWAYAM BHU and eternal like God, but soul is not God and cannot be even. Please study the meaning of "ANADI". Soul is ANADI which I have told several times above and before.

Swamiji's previous answer: So in Rigveda mantra 1/164/20," DWA SUPARNNA SAKHYA" does not suit in your quotation.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! You quoted the above mantra first, but you are saying now that I had quoted it and does not suit. You quoted it first, and thus I am answering to it. Please vide my previous posting carefully.
Swami Ramswarup: The meaning of this mantra explained by you do not suit the Vedas fundamental law please. The meaning I quoted say that prakriti made body is there in which soul and God live. But you have told another meaning. Doesn't matter you accept your meaning and I accept my meaning. But love must be there.

Swamiji's previous reply: A jeevan mukta has no soul, as you say,
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! I never said that a jeevan mukta does not have a soul. Tthere is some misunderstanding in understanding of my postings. I request you to read my previous posting very carefully. Or please show my wordings where I had said that a jeevan muktas has no soul. I will explain on this again.
Swami Ramswarup: Several times you have said please that the soul of jeevan mukta after leaving the present body will merged in God. So naturally the soul will not have existence. I cannot locate your correct words at this juncture being busy please.

Swamiji's previous reply: "but jeevan mukta is a soul himself. Jeevan mukta like Vyas Muni, Yagyavalkya etc., used to discharge their duties daily"
Ram Suri present reply: I agree on this. But I never said that a jeevan mukta has no soul. Or else please prove it.
Swamiji's previous reply: I had already explained Rigveda mantra 1/164/20 which says about tree (made of prakriti), birds (soul ) and third God( who is witness of all). I would request you to study this mantra from philosopher of Vedas because two types of souls have not been mentioned in Vedas.
Ram Suri present reply: It is possible that you did not read my earlier answer carefully. Even if you had read it, it is possible that you did not understand it. I never said that there are two types of souls in my answer. I once again request you to read the answers carefully and then reply. Also please show me where I had said two types of souls. I will explain it again.
Swami Ramswarup: You have been telling please about conditioned and unconditioned souls, is it not two types? If I am wrong please clarify again.

Swamiji's previous reply: Souls are uncounted, quality being same and the God is omnipresent.
Ram Suri present reply: Souls are uncounted. I agree on this. But what are you trying to prove from it? Every body also knows that divine is omnipresent. So, what is your question or objection here? Are you trying to say that since there are uncounted souls, and since divine is one, they both are different? I answered to this objection many times in my previous postings that under what circumstances soul is different from divine, and under what situations soul becomes divine. Surprisingly, you are unable to catch this point sir.
Swami Ramswarup: God is separate and souls are separate and prakriti is separate by qualities and God is omnipresent and the sense of saying this all is that souls cannot be merged into God, as you say please.

Swamiji's previous reply: My Dear, the literal meaning doesn't solve the purpose and dear you don't even know the literal meaning of Vedas, I think so.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! I remember you saying previously that you have limited understanding of Vedas. Now how come you judge with your limited understanding about me whether I know or not? It is not possible. Right?
Swami Ramswarup: I know I have told you that you have unlimited knowledge. Previously you first told me that there is no any guarantee that I have knowledge of Vedas and you have told me that even above also that I do not know even literal knowledge of the Vedas. So I, based on not having literal knowledge etc., have told you a wiser of unlimited knowledge please. But I thank you that a wiser like you is carrying on talk with a man who is even does not know ABC about any knowledge.Thanking you and hope you will sure shower blessing upon me, a simple man to carry on this discussion till its finalization with your happiness.

Swamiji's previous reply: That if a sadhak is still away to practice ashtang yoga, then secret of mantra will not be known.
Ram Suri present reply: Sir! How do you know for sure either me or some other persons do astanga yoga or not. What is the basis for this assumption by you? This is the trouble with you. You assume by default that others do not do astanga yoga but you only do it. You assume that others do not read any thing, but you only read them. You assume that others do not know Sanskrit, but you only know it. Sir! This type of assumption is not good.
Swami Ramswarup: Trouble is this that you are a wiser having unlimited knowledge and you are carrying the discussion with a simple man. Now come to the point, he who does ashtang yoga or not, he himself know and this is not to be told to anybody else. If I say the fundamental of the Vedas i.e., Rigveda mantra 1/164/16 says that the lack of knowledge of yoga do not know about the secrets of Vedas, shastras,upnishads, Bhagwat Geeta etc., so it is not a mean that who is doing yoga or who is not yoga practice please. You utter your own made views always which are accepted too. Where I have told about ashtang yoga or studying of Vedas being done by me or anybody else. Sir your views are wonderful and happily accepted. Where I told that I know Sanskrit and no others?

Swamiji's previous reply: So I will be happy if you start studying Vedas to know even literal meaning of any divine word of any Veda.
Ram Suri present reply: Thanks for your kind words. On the other hand, sir! For how many divine words of Vedas did you understand the literal meaning so far with your limited understanding, as you had claimed earlier?
Swami Ramswarup: I know nothing but know that Vedas are true being eternal knowledge direct from God. You are a wiser than me having unlimited knowledge please.

Swamiji's previous reply: The study of Vedas sure gives peace as had been giving in the past three yugas.
Ram Suri present reply: Most of the people are at the reader level only. And that's what you are also asking to do now. That is the reason why they are unable to grasp the very subtle meaning of Vedas. This is the very same reason we had persons like Ravan, Kansa, Duyodhan etc in the past, and also in the present in different forms. Ravan had read all Vedas, but he did not understand the essence of the spirituality of Vedas.
Swami Ramswarup: Please give any proof that Ravana read Vedas. The dignities you have told above with literal knowledge I tell you are of those who were against the Vedas. Ravana used to kill the Rishis from whom the Vedas are listened. Then how he learnt Vedas from a Rishi. Rishi Vishwamitr jee brought Shri Ram to escape from the demons deputed by Ravana. With literal knowledge I say to you, a wise man that perhaps, it has been a saying that Ravana read Vedas and could not understand. Thisis a tact to ruin the Vedas' knowledge. Please accept it or not because it is from a literal knowledge. But here you are again changing the topic of merged soul.

Ram Suri: Thus Ravan was only a good reader, but not spiritually inclined person. That is the reason he kidnapped Sita and fought with Lord Ram and died in the war. Because of people like Dhuryodhan, Kansa etc, lots, lots of innocent people were killed. You say it is peaceful in the past three yugas, when lots of people were killed. Peace could be established only due to Lord Ram and Lord Krishna during their respective yugas.
Swami Ramswarup: With literal knowledge I say that Soul is free always to do good or bad. In all Vedas specially Yajurveda mantra 11/14 -15,10/22,11/77-78,11/82,Saamveda 1172, Atharvaveda 2/7/1-2, it is mentioned that the king must punish the evils. I think it is enough please. Otherwise please clarify if there should have no war at that time like Shri Ram- Ravana, Shri Krishna -Kans and Mahabharta etc.

Swamiji's previous reply: Please study Saamveda wherein the importance of Yajna has been stressed by Almighty God to get peace, to burn sins and even to get salvation. After studying Vedas, if one starts studying holy Geeta then he will be surprised that holy Geeta is fully based on four Vedas and he will be able to understand the real meaning of Bhagwat geeta. That is why Shri Krishna says that He is Saamveda. So to know the reality of Shri Krishna, one will have to study and follow the path of Saamveda.
Ram Suri present reply: If one has to read SaamVed in order to know the reality of Lord Krishna, then in Gita, Lord Krishna also said that he is the king of heaven (Indra) among gods. Did you also learn about Indra as per your self-rule?
Swami Ramswarup: Yes I have explained before with the literal knowledgeabout Indra etc., please see there.

Ram Suri: But when you do not believe in the existence of other gods, how can you learn about the king of gods, Indra? You could not have learnt about Indra. Right?Therefore, when you do not follow this rule, then how come you ask others to follow it? Please do not misunderstand me that I am insulting you or anyone.
Swami Ramswarup: I am not forcing you to study any Veda but has said clearly to follow your path. There is no any other power like God's to help the only one Almighty God who creates the universe, says Vedas. And Bhagwat Geeta is based on Vedas please. With literal knowledge I have given the knowledge of swarg, narak and indra etc., according to knowledge of Vedas. If not accepted then it's okay please.

Swamiji's previous answer: "And in 13/4 chapter that all this knowledge is in the Vedas and Rishis have already told from Vedas i.e., Shri Krishna is giving knowledge from Vedas too".
Ram Suri previous reply: You gave a wrong reference from Gita. The correct reference is 13/5. But it is ok. I am not so serious on this. Let us move on.
Swamiji's previous reply: NO, I QUOTED 13/4 WHICH ISCORRECT AND YOU HAVE QUOTED 13/5 WHICH ISWRONG.
Ram Suri present reply: You have said the following in your previous reply: "And in 13/4 chapter that all this knowledge is in the Vedas and Rishis have already told from Vedas i.e., shri Krishna is giving knowledge from Vedas too". However, when I pointed out your mistake in my email, you are still saying that the reference you quoted iscorrect. In this reference there is no mention of Vedas and Rishis please.
Swami Ramswarup: It is mentioned in 13/4 that ,"RISHIBHIHI BAHUDAGEETAM" ETC., ETC., AND IT IS Geeta printed by Geeta Press Gorakhpur, here Rishibhi means who knows Ved mantras, Geetam means to sing a song of Ved mantrasetc., etc.

Ram Suri: Please do not be hurry, and I once again request you to look into this reference carefully. In 13/5 sloka, the words rishis and Vedas are present. I will wait for your answer for this.
Swami Ramswarup: Please quote your reference 13/5 stating shlokas.

Vedic Traitvad

Everybody say that God has created the universe but these views, though, are true but seem to be not based on the study of Vedas (Yajurveda Chapter 31 and Rigveda Mandal 10). So the words are being used like a traditional saying, which is wrong, being a cut-piece. Especially Atharvaved Kand 12, Sukta 5, Mantra 50 and the whole Kand 12 mostly, warn to study the Vedas in full and your statement must be based on Vedas’ knowledge as proof. Atharvaveda Mantra 7/2/1 speaks that he who has not studied the Vedas in full, has not practiced Ashtang Yoga and thus has not realized God and has not known about the creation and unisexual creation of human beings at the beginning of the earth, he is not an authentic person to deliver any preach to anybody. So the preach of such like mantras must be seriously adhered to. The secret of this mantra is that when a person will study Vedas in full, and do yoga practice, and will be able to understand the creation in accordance with the philosophy of the above said Yajurveda Chapter 31 and Mandal 10 of Riveda the only he will be able to understand the traitvad because in the said Mantras, Almighty God has clearly preached that universe is made of non-alive Prakriti, souls get bodies in accordance with their karmas and God is within souls, and prakriti made the universe.

The said Mandal 10 Sukta 129 of Rigveda speaks – “Na Sat Aseet Na Asat Aseet, Na Mrituyu Aseet Na Amritam.” This is the description after the final destruction of the universe and before the next creation, i.e. of the time gap where no creation existed. That is why the God preaches in this Mantra that there was no Sat, i.e. Almighty God was there but His power, which is called “Sat” here, was not in action to create universe. And therefore, Asat didn’t exist there. Asat means that the previous creation, that is, earth, moon, air, space, etc. because it was the time gap after the previous final destruction of the universe and before the next creation. “Na Mrityuhu Asset Na Amritam”. Amritam means final liberation of the soul. When there was no birth and death, therefore, there was no question of any salvation. Again the mantra says “Tat Ekam” i.e. one truth (God). “Swadhya” i.e. Swayambhu. “Avatum” i.e. without requiring air etc. to live upon. “Aaseet” i.e. was there. Its meaning is that between the gap stated above, there was only Almighty God present who requires nothing to live upon, neither requires any assistance of organs etc. To see, listen and walk etc. and especially because God is called swadhya (Swayambhu) which means that nobody has made the God and therefore God Himself is without reasoning.

For example, a child is a reason of parents to take birth but God has no reason being Swadhya (Swa=self, Dhya=firmness). Here I shall draw attention of all concerned to Rigveda Mantra 1/164/46 wherein it is stated that God is one but according to His unlimited qualities, His holy names are also unlimited. On this basis, we draw our attention to Rigveda Mantra 1/1/1 – “Agnim Ede Purohitam…”. Ag Agrini dhatu produces word Agni which means “Firstly” or “before”. Ede means “desire”. The meaning of the mantra will be – I must desire to realize the God Who was present before creation. So we must worship the God and must not worship His creation, the mantra says. Secondly, the God is self-firmness. So nobody has the power to make God or determine God at his own accord. In this connection, Yajurveda Mantra 32/3 also refers, saying, “Na Tasya Pratima Asti.” Pratima means (Pratimaap) i.e. beyond measurement and weight and therefore without shape. So we must hundred percent fix our deterimination about God that He is formless and self-firmness, needs no assistant being Almighty, independent, etc. etc.

So this is one (first) eternal truth. In the next mantra 3 of this Sukta 129, there was another eternal truth called (Aabhu Aseet) “AABHU” (Prakriti) which is the cause of creation of universe. That is called AABHU (Prakirti) a substance was also there, which is used for creation. “Tat Mahina” i.e. from this ABHU (Prakirti), a Mahat (mind) originated which was the first substance created at the time of beginning of the earth. Mandal 10 of Rigveda Mantra cited above further says, in Mantra 5, Sukta 129 – “Retodhana Aasan”.

“Ret” means the first seed of desire orinated in mind (Mann in Hindi) at the beginning of the earth, as stated in Mantra 4, Sukta 129. “Retodhaha” means orinally the desire are held by alive souls. So the mantra says that the second truth, before creation, was alive souls and souls were “Mahimaanaha Aasan” i.e. souls were countless, “Eshan Rashmihi” i.e. the souls were bound with previous karmas, therefore were waiting for the next birth in new creation. So this is the second eternal truth called souls. In next mantra 6, it is said – “Kah Addha Ved” i.e who knows the fact of above cited God, souls and ABHU (Prakriti) at this juncture. Juncture means systemaically we are studying Mandal 10 Mantra and we have reached only upto 6th Mantra. Uptil now the description of Almighty, the only God, Prakriti and the countless souls, we have learnt and not any other truth. Now we proceed and see that this Mantra 6th further says, “Because the learned persons have not yet taken birth and will take birth at the time of complete creation, so nobody was there and therefore nobody can thus, describe about the God, souls or about the creation as from which element the creation is made of. Next Mantra 7th of this Sukta throws knowledge that the Almighty God truly is the commander of the non-alive matter i.e, prakriti, further says because the Almighty God is the Commander of the matter (prakriti). “Sah Yadi Vaa Dadhe Yadi Vaa Naa” i.e. it is upto God whether He creates universe or not. Though the creation is automatic but the scret of these lines is that when the power of God starts functioning in the matter (prakriti) then only the creation starts and until the power of the God does not start functioning in that matter (prakriti), the creation will never take place. Based on the knowledge of Vedas, Muni Kapil says in his Sankhya Shastra Sutra 1/26 that from Prakriti the first substance originated in the form of ‘Mahat’ mind, then Ahankaar, 5 Tan Matras, 5 matters and 11 organs (Indriyan). Therefore, there remains no scope of Advaitvad because the conclusion of these Mantras comes that before creation, three eternal substances always remain i.e. Almighty God, souls (both alive) and non-alive prakriti. Creation from Prakriti and final destruction at the stipulated time is called “Sansar Chakra” and this Chakra according to Yajurveda Mantra 31/3 remains in one part (Padah Asya Vishwa Bhutani) power of Almighty God, as also said in Geeta Shloka 10/42. In this Sansaar Chakra, the eternal soul due to attachment with worldly affairs made of Prakriti, is wandering (birth and death) in sorrows, problem, etc. A spiritual master when preaches the aspirant, then only the soul recollect his eternal stage.

Vedas – A proof in token to recognize truth

Atharvaveda Mantra 1/164/16 says “Akshanvaan Pashyat Na Vi Chetat Andhaha” that is, he who knows enternal knowledge of Vedas, has been performing Yagya (Yajna) and practiced Yoga philosophy, he realizes God and he who is lack of the same knowledge cannot. Yajurveda Mantra 6/5 says “Suryaha Vishnoho Paramam Padam Sada Pashyanti” that is Suryaha (Philosopher of Vedas and does Yoga) ever sees (realises) the Almighty and omnipresent God. Yajurveda Mantra 40/13 says “Dheeranam Tat Shushrum”. Dheeranam means he knows Vedas and practices Ashtang Yoga and realizes God, so the meaning of mantra is that we, aspirants have been listening about Almighty God from Dheeranam and like this, there are so many other remaining Ved mantras, which clarify that based on the knowledge of Vedas, he who does Yagya and practice of Ashtang Yoga is capable to realize the secret of Prakriti, souls and Almighty God. This is called Traitvad because it has got three enternal subjects cited latter. Our ancient Rishis have preached that to know the truth, there are four authentic proofs, as also said by Patanjali Rishi in his Yoga Shastra Sutra 1/7 –
“Pratyakshanuman Aagamaha Pramaanani”. So in Aagam Pramaan there are two pramaan (proofs) to realize truth:
(i) “Aaptodeshaha Shabdaha” (Sankhya Shastra, Sutra 1/66). That is a Rishi who knows Vedas and has realised God by practicing Ashtang Yoga, is considered a proof to realize truth of traitvad cited above, which means that whatever he says is true, because he only says his experience of samadhi (salvation) and hard study of Vedas and practical Yajna. That is why Kapil Muni has told in his said sutra that the preach of such Rishi is true and is considered a proof to determine the truth.

(ii) Second proof in Aagam Pramaan is – four Vedas but Vedas have not been written by any Rishi etc. Vedas are the knowledge originated in the heart of four Rishis at the time of creation. So Vedas are considered as “Swataha Pramaan” (self-proof) being the knowledge direct from God. So Vedas need no proof. On this matter of Vedas, there are so many Ved Mantras like Yajurveda Mantra 31/7. The said mantra says that Rigveda, Samveda, Atharvaveda and Yajurveda – is the enternal knowledge from God, that is, Vedas emanated direct from God, so are self-proof, that is why, Rishi Patanjali says in his Yoga Shastra Sutra 1/26:

“Saha Eshah Poorvesham Api Guruhu Kalenaan Avachedat” that is the Almighty God is the first Guru of the ancient Rishi at the time of first unisexual creation. The God, by His power originated the knowledge of four Vedas in the heart of four Rishis and thereafter the Rishi-Munis of such qualities have been our Guru. Vyas Muni, commenting on this Sutra 1/26, says that at the time of creation, there was no Guru to give knowledge to the persons because every Rishi left his body in the previous creation, which creation had been destroyed in the final destruction of universe (Pralaya) and as a principle, until knowledge is given by anybody, the knowledge cannot be attained. So our first Guru is Almighty God Himself, who gave the knowledge of four Vedas, which was followed by our ancient Rishis traditionally and we have to follow to maintain the eternal culture and realize Prakriti, soul and God, being the main objective of this human life. Therefore, in the whole world, that path or the knowledge is true which tallies with four Vedas. This fundamental law of God must be known by everybody seriously to reach the truth. Unluckily, most of the saints are talking at their own accord and what a wonder even that they usually tell not to study the Vedas, no to perform the holy Yajna and not to follow the Yoga philosophy; which are against the Vedas, the knowledge of God.

It has been a matter of pleasure for me that on the Internet several questions are being sent regarding spiritualism and with the grace of Almighty God, I’ve been answering, totally based on the knowledge of four Vedas as proof. Recently, the questions regarding Advaitvad are being received, which are placed in this section for the aspirants to study, to understand the truth, please. Comments of the readers will be appreciated.

Foreward - Adwaitvad

Since long, I have been receiving questions on Internet from world level aspirants on the matter of faith. I ever thank Almighty God who has truly blessed me with the knowledge to satisfy the concerned personnel. I heartily take it a service for humanity provided by God and I really feel personal satisfaction while receiving calm reply from all concerned. Spiritualism is a vast, the deepest and even hard subject and to satisfy the aspirants is not an easy task even. As a matter of fact, all will too appreciate that there is one Almighty God who creates, nurses, destroys and again creates the universe. And too that the goal of all human beings is to realize God by promoting international brotherhood. But it has been my personal feeling that until and unless till such time a man will not be able to know and realize the true qualities of only one Almighty God who is a creator and nursing the universe like our father, the ravages of hatred cannot be made ended and spreading of love at the level of International brotherhood will be affected.

Let us, therefore share our sources to spread brotherhood Internationally by trying our level best to know the real truth, that is Almighty God, while discharging our moral duties towards family, society and nation.

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